From: you dont know me
Date: 20 Feb 2011
Time: 04:13 PM
we have been losing our market shear of work in NYC and of course we always look to blame our leadership, our business agents, our council reps and of course our organizers but lets get to the heart of the problem. the other day I was on a job and the company called the hall for an apprentice. the next day we got a 4 th year he was there early and with all his tools that was a good sign but that was about it, he had "no skills" oh he was good at delivery's but that was about it. he couldn't frame or sheet rock and watching him trying to use a skill saw was scary. then the company called for another apprentice and we got a 3rd yr " NO SKILLS " after I watch the 3rd yr just trying to put his tools on I thought to myself I wouldn't even pay this guy 10$ an hr never mind what our company must be paying for a 3rd yr package, and this is what we are giving our good signatory contractors, and were losing market share " gee you think " so where did get this 3rd yr and 4 th yr from, with no skills to show for themselves ? oh that's right they came from the ....THE LABOR TECHNIAL COLLEGE.... yea, well the name sounds nice I guess that's good for organizing. food for thought , these are the ones who will be going out as journeymen soon and, these are the ones that are going to be working to help keep our pension funds up so they will be there when we retire. were turning out apprentice with no skills and yet were supposed to compete with non union workers that work for less then 1/2 pay, and yet they work all year round and, we have guys crying about starting work 5 min early, apprentices that don't know what 3... 4...5 is well I guess soon we will have time to walk our dog.
From: big ass problem
Date: 20 Feb 2011
Time: 04:34 PM
you forgot one key thing. Our contracts explicitly state that apprentices are suppose to spend 50% of their time on their tools and work with a journeyman. How many do you see that enforce? Never. For the stewards that knew this and tried to correct situation, BA's told them there more important issues. We allowed contractors to use and abuse the apprentice wage scale. The contractors get a wage scale so they can allow for job training. Everyone knows you don't learn the trade in a classroom. You need to fucking practice to learn. But job training is not good for the immediate bottom line for most contractors. Explain to me how you get are allowed to work for 3 years doing nothing but insulation and deliveries, work very little as a 4th year (but because you have the hours from the previous 3 years) as soon as you finish school you become a mechanic. How are they suppose to compete with guys working everyday? They can't! So who the hell is going to work to pay your pension? This is a classic example of the Union catering to contractors, who are so USED to getting what they want. Enforce the fucking contracts! By the way, the apprentice-journeyman ratios have been suspended. All those 4th year apprentices that we all paid to "train" are beyond starving. They are leaving.
Apprenitces get to do big man work when they're not supposed to, ratio's weren't maintained and proper instruction took place less & less. Forced to do laborer work wherein the lcl reps favoring Co's just said use them for that instead of going about it with the other trades., - thats one of my my beefs.
I spoke to apprentices in these positions and understood exactly was going on and it took place regularly.
District Council Paid Lcl reps gave this to the company.
Hey Real Estate Developer Magazine what about this the past 16 years Foirde & Co let you have that.
How much did you save. Now you want more. NO CONCESSIONS
When an apprentice comes up to you and says how come I'm doing work your getting full pay for when clearly they're a month in on thier first year ??????????????
Or in any number of ways not adhearing to CBA's when left on his own as instructed to do so by the foreman while the steward does nothing.
Stop this at your council, - stop it at McCarron. File charges when this happens. When grievances get buried go to the labor agencies and say this is what they're doing.
Apperentices should have a better spot than where they're at today. Their proper share of experience has eluded them and that makes us look bad in the eyes of the money men. NOT US CARPENTERS SPENCER, -- YOU.
YOU WHO LET IT HAPPEN IS WHO MAKES US LOOK BAD. NO CONCESSIONS, - NO APPOINTED EBOARDS TO LET YOU TAKE MY COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AWAY.