hall vs company

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hall vs company

Levi
   What's the difference between a company man and a man from the hall? Not as much as some people think. Prejudicial statements say more about the person saying them than the people they are putting down. And the truth is all prejudice is rooted in ignorance and fear.
   I bring this up now because we're in a crisis which affects both sides. During a time when we are under supervision by the UBC, our supervisors are using their power to impose their will in some areas where they don't belong. For instance, UBC supervisors are busy right now negotiating contracts for us. I believe, as many others do, they are doing this contrary to the best interests of the members of the NYCDCC. Also there has been talk by the UBC of moving our school and selling our real estate. This is the business of the NYCDCC and these decisions should be made by us. There was talk of starting a new local called Interior Systems Local which would cause an even greater rift between us. Let's not forget the aggressive dissolution of local 608 and the fact that McCarron has placed himself on the board of trustees of our pension fund. Together we must fight UBC supervision and take control of our district council.
    I've met many good people on both sides of the fence and there's a place for everyone. People who work steady for a company serve an important role in this union just as the people from the hall do. Put your differences aside and come from your jobsites together as brothers and sisters at  the rally at 395 Hudson St.at 3:00 pm Wednesday, April 13.
    "A house divided against itself cannot stand" Abraham Lincoln
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Re: hall vs company

What we need
Purpose is a result, end, mean, aim, or goal of an action intentionally undertaken,[1] or of an object being brought into use or existence, whether or not the purpose was a primary or secondary effect. It is possible that an intentional act may have multiple purposes, only one of which is a primary intention while the remainder are secondary intentions. For example, the introduction of a gene into a species of rice may have the primary intention of providing resistance to disease and a secondary intention of reducing nutritional value. The diminished nutritional value, though perhaps regrettable, would be a secondary intention in that it is a known effect willingly accepted.
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Re: hall vs company

Accountability
Loved your first paragraph, Levi.
  I am retired now, and have seen first hand the quarreling between hall men and shop men for the 30 yrs. I put in.
  If we accept the basic fundamentals of a union, such as workers rights and protections, I believe we have unity. When we allow our brothers to show up on a job-site under the influence, or unproductive in their performance, this is wrong and hurts everyone.
   No legitimate business carries unproductive employees and survives. We were sending out men who were sub-par over and over again, then companies had difficulty getting these men off their job-site.
   So now we have a certification required for all men, but when I was tested and found out that at least half the men tested should have failed, the instructor said "We were told we are failing too many men, when they re-test, just pass them!"  
   We should have accountability for all our members. From the top down.
   We should all earn our money, union doesn't stand for free ride!
owl
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Re: hall vs company

owl
i already have been doing carpentry for 20 yrs before i took a union card

if i would have known that i was gonna be a owl guy i never would have taken that card

nonunion isnt as good as far as pay and benes go but atleast i never would have found out what the unemployment line was

i thought the whole idea of union was to get rid of the favortism to give all men a chance at making a living .you cant learn anything on the owl while all the company guys and hall guys all work. maybe its time to get rid of the union and make everything prevailing wage or prevailing wage just for the company guys and hall guys. owl keep the union cards

what happen to that work union live better
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Re: hall vs company

Levi
   To owl,
      You can't be serious. I can hardly believe I have to tell you this but here goes. Nearly every right we have in the workplace for union and nonunion workers in many industries came about because of unions. Read a fucking book about it. Go to a meeting. Read Dennis Walsh's first interim report. Stand up for the union or get out of the way.
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Re: hall vs company

Levi
In reply to this post by Accountability
   Accountability goes both ways brother. We all need to be accountable, but you seem to be focused on the problems of the hall guys. Steady company men have their fair share of problems too.
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Re: hall vs company

Justice..
In reply to this post by Levi
      Very true and well written....I have been a company man for many years and as you say have come across many good men from both sides and many not so good from both sides....Companies had no problems keeping inferior company men and company favors but had a hard time calling the hall for men and being sent inferior carpenters who had the chip on their shoulder that they were safe because they were a "favor" from the hall.The OWL did not work and was manipulated so the most qualified next man was passed over to get to the favors.These days are gone, and neither the companies nor the hall/OWL can carry guys who cannot do their job.This is the only way we can rebuild a positive Union image with the public and compete with scabs... We need each other and some luck to regain a stronghold on work in this great city....
atm
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Re: hall vs company

atm
go fuck yourself.i been a hall guy my whole career and cant tell you how many times i got my check before some useless dick did,some drunkin asshole who brought the beers for the forman,or his fishing buddy or some ones son or nephew.these are the same guys whowork for cash,come in on saturdays without a stewart,and are the first ones to knock the guy from the hall.they usually come from long island or jersey and have a bad smell of cock on their breath.so in closing go fuck yourself
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Re: hall vs company

Levi
Atm, believe me I know what you're talking about. I've seen this bullshit too, lost jobs and burned bridges because of it. But I've also met good people. The point is to go to the rally next Wednesday and fight for our rights, then I'll go fuck myself.
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Re: hall vs company

bill lebo
You all make good points. I've seen great carpenters on both sides, hall and company. I've seen great union men on both sides as well. I've also seen terrible carpenters and union men on both sides. Bottom line is we have a serious problem that needs to be addressed. The contractors that we work for have to be profitable. That's why they're in business. They're not there to put us to work, they're there to make money. We as union carpenters are a commodity. We supply the labor that makes the contrators profitable. If we supply an inferior product, then we're not worth the money we cost and the contractor loses. If the contractor loses he goes out of business. If he goes out of business we have no one to work for and we go out of business. Everyone loses. The problem is, like it or not, and believe me I don't like it, we haven't been putting out the the best product when it comes to members and stewards coming off the OWL. There is a reason for this, members have been putting qualifications on their lists that they don't have, including stewards. Example, I'm on a job as a steward for one contractor, another contractor who has the main work in the building, had to replace their steward because the steward they had retired. Yesterday the replacement steward came to the job. The steward was asked to frame out a wall, when he was done the studs were at 17 inches 20 inches etc, took him all day and it had to be redone. Today, they had him do ceiling grid, when the forman checked on him he was hanging the grid, problem was he hadn't put up any wall molding. He was removed today, and told the BA he was filing charges for wrongful dismisal. This is the problem. How do we fix it? A few years ago, the council was going to test members who put new qualifications on their list of quals. I was dead set against this. I felt after 20 some odd years of working on as many jobs as I have , nobody had the right to question my abilities. Today after seeing this problem over and over again, I would be more than happy to take whatever test I would be given because this is an epidemic that is hurting everybody. If a member gets laid off after only a couple of days on a job that should have lasted an inquiry should be made. Why? If the answer is that the foreman felt the member wasn't skilled then the member should be tested on a practical basis. If the test finds the forman was right that skill should be removed. I know there are alot of people that are going to disagree with me on this, but this very thing is why the contractors are asking for full mobility. I am totally against full mobility for a variety of reasons but I recognize the problem and it has to be dealt with because it is hurting the qualified skilled members of our union who work off the OWL. Now I know I'm going to take a lot of flack for this but just think about it. If you have a better way to fix the problem I'd love to hear it.
atm
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Re: hall vs company

atm
well said bill,if you get laid off for lack of skills the company is supossed to write a letter.why dont they.they push the problem off to the next contractor
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Re: hall vs company

anonymous
In reply to this post by Levi
From: Malcolm X Speaks: Selected Speeches and Statements (1965) edited by George Breitman:

The field Negro was beaten from morning to night; he lived in a shack, in a hut; he wore old, castoff clothes. He hated his master. I say he hated his master. He was intelligent. That house Negro loved his master, but that field Negro — remember, they were in the majority, and they hated the master. When the house caught on fire, he didn't try to put it out; that field Negro prayed for a wind, for a breeze. When the master got sick, the field Negro prayed that he'd die. If someone came to the field Negro and said, "Let's separate, let's run," he didn't say, "Where we going?" He'd say, "Any place is better than here."
_

Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. You don't need anything else.

Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change.

If you're afraid of black nationalism, you're afraid of revolution. And if you love revolution, you love black nationalism. To understand this, you have to go back to what the young brother here referred to as the house Negro and the field Negro back during slavery. There were two kinds of slaves, the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes — they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good because they ate his food — what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved the master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master's house — quicker than the master would. If the master said, "We got a good house here," the house Negro would say, "Yeah, we got a good house here." Whenever the master said "we," he said "we." That's how you can tell a house Negro.

If the master's house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, "What's the matter, boss, we sick?" We sick! He identified himself with his master, more than his master identified with himself. And if you came to the house Negro and said, "Let's run away, let's escape, let's separate," the house Negro would look at you and say, "Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?" That was that house Negro. In those days he was called a "house nigger." And that's what we call them today, because we've still got some house niggers running around here.

This modern house Negro loves his master. He wants to live near him. He'll pay three times as much as the house is worth just to live near his master, and then brag about "I'm the only Negro out here." "I'm the only one on my job." "I'm the only one in this school." You're nothing but a house Negro. And if someone comes to you right now and says, "Let's separate," you say the same thing that the house Negro said on the plantation. "What you mean, separate? From America, this good white man? Where you going to get a better job than you get here?" I mean, this is what you say. "I ain't left nothing in Africa," that's what you say. Why, you left your mind in Africa.

On that same plantation, there was the field Negro. The field Negroes — those were the masses. There were always more Negroes in the field than there were Negroes in the house. The Negro in the field caught hell. He ate leftovers. In the house they ate high up on the hog. The Negro in the field didn't get anything but what was left of the insides of the hog.