What Will Happen At Monday's Local 157 Meeting?

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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
I wil
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
I will.. I have a lag in my computer
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Daniel J. Franco
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
Rich, you're somewhat right. My questioning of your response to my 'Pro Tem President/Chairman' post was influenced by all your other posts regarding your version of how pro tem works, which to me clearly does dot coincide with the LMRDA, the UBC Constitution and Robert's Rules of Order, 10th Ed.
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
Than I ask you out of respect to show me where I am wrong but at least concede you have your interpretation and I have mine. Do I say yours is wrong. No. I am challenging it. Show me how I am wrong and you are right
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
I would just like you to start by showing me which section of the LMRDA even mentions pro tem. It certainly is not in 29(482) Section 401 a-e so show me
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
Just do me one favor. Two questions for the record.Will there be another election for Pro Tem at the next meeting?? If Elawrence is gone forever who is the new President of 157??
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Daniel J. Franco
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
Rich, it is a violation of the LMRDA, which has precedence over the UBC Constitution, TITLE IV—ELECTIONS, Terms of Office; Election Procedures, 1) SEC. 401 (b) to not "ELECT ITS OFFICERS" by "SECRET BALLOT" and 2) SEC. 401 (e) to not give notice "Not less than fifteen days prior to the election" and not "mailed to each member at his last known home address." Clearly, both were not done. http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/statutes/lmrda-act.htm

While conducting a local union meeting the local union president, or whom ever is in charge of the meeting, is the chair/chairman/chairperson.

'Pro tem' is short for 'pro tempore' which is Latin for "for the time being"; "for the present time but not permanently". http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/pro+tem; http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/pro%20tem; 

Rich, do you think it proper that an organization should be allowed have an election for a non-pro tem new officer, in particular a president, without ample notice in writing to all the membership? Do think it is proper that a non-pro tem new officer be allowed to be elected by only 1/25th the members present? Do think it proper to have a surprise election for a non-pro tem new officer?
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Daniel J. Franco
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
"Will there be another election for Pro Tem at the next meeting??" If D'Errico does not return, which I am sure he will not, then yes, another pro tem president/chairman election must occur.

"If Elawrence is gone forever who is the new President of 157??" Until the next regularly scheduled election, which will occur this June approximately 90 days from our last local union meeting, there will be NO LU157 president or vice-president. Amongst other things, this situation will be used as an excuse to not advance on any motion made recently or before the next LU election. Additionally, I think it is highly probable that one or more LU157 officers will also 'resign' their LU position within the next month. In turn, I expect the UBC/McCarron to attempt to use this against LU157 and its members via a trusteeship or dissolution.
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by Daniel J. Franco
Rich, it is a violation of the LMRDA, which has precedence over the UBC Constitution, TITLE IV—ELECTIONS, Terms of Office; Election Procedures, 1) SEC. 401 (b) to not "ELECT ITS OFFICERS" by "SECRET BALLOT" and 2) SEC. 401 (e) to not give notice "Not less than fifteen days prior to the election" and not "mailed to each member at his last known home address." Clearly, both were not done. http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/statutes/lmrda-act.htm

Agreed Dan but the LMRDA does not mention Pro Tem or Chairman Duration and directing the members to read this to explain Pro Tem or what happened at the meeting was misleading and would not validate your statement. Not being critical just debating. While these are general election rules and I agree with you they do nothing to verify pro tem.

"While conducting a local union meeting the local union president, or whom ever is in charge of the meeting, is the chair/chairman/chairperson."

True but the Chairperson does NOT have to be the President and can be anybody. Many Organizations have Chairperson and Vice Chairperson and do not even use the title President and Vice President so for someone to say a President or Vice President HAS to be chosen for the meeting to run is well just not true. A Chairperson has to run the meeting and that chair could and should have been Carpuso. Roberts rules are clear . In no place does it say you elect a Pro Tem President .You elect a Pro Tem Chairperson. And that could have been anyone and would not have become President of 157 by their choice to chair a meeting.Roberts Rules are not just for Local Unions.

Dan.Did you think you needed to define Pro Tem for me. If so .Why?

Rich, "do you think it proper that an organization should be allowed have an election for a non-pro tem new officer, in particular a president, without ample notice in writing to all the membership? Do think it is proper that a non-pro tem new officer be allowed to be elected by only 1/25th the members present? Do think it proper to have a surprise election for a non-pro tem new officer?"

No. No and No. However it was done . It was invoked under 32D. A Pro Tem Chair was not chosen under Roberts rules. A Pro Tem President was chosen under 32d and a Vice President Under 32 B. All a scam. Carpuso had no need or right since the Office of President was not vacated. So it was ignorance or a scam. Judging by who is the new 157 President if Derrico is truly gone you decide if it was a scam.
 
    Now please for the record.In your opinion which many NYC members respect. One:Do you think there will be a pro tem PRESIDENT election at the next meeting. Two:Who is the 157 President if Derrico was to be removed at any time forward
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by Daniel J. Franco
Thank you dan. Now lets hold this

Dan:"Will there be another election for Pro Tem at the next meeting??" If D'Errico does not return, which I am sure he will not, then yes, another pro tem president/chairman election must occur.

Rich: No there will not be a Pro Tem Election at the next meeting. unless you wake up and fight and listen to those trying to help you.

"If Elawrence is gone forever who is the new President of 157??"

Dan:Until the next regularly scheduled election, which will occur this June approximately 90 days from our last local union meeting, there will be NO LU157 president or vice-president. Amongst other things, this situation will be used as an excuse to not advance on any motion made recently or before the next LU election. Additionally, I think it is highly probable that one or more LU157 officers will also 'resign' their LU position within the next month. In turn, I expect the UBC/McCarron to attempt to use this against LU157 and its members via a trusteeship or dissolution.

Rich: You will have a President at the next meeting and if Derrico is removed tomorrow you already have a President in place if you let the UBC run this scam and it wont be Bilello.

Now these are our opinions. Let us see the end result and talk again.
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

http://www.local157.com/executiveboard.html
In reply to this post by Daniel J. Franco
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by Daniel J. Franco
"I expect the UBC/McCarron to attempt to use this against LU157 and its members via a trusteeship or dissolution"

The Officers were removed by Walsh who is doing his job. Do you think he would let or the UBC would try to punish your local because his office did their job and removed alleged corrupt elements. There would and should be an uproar
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
To clarify. My predictions will only come true IF you LET the UBC run this scam.
Joe
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Joe
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
You were not at the meeting where all of this transpired, I was.
Capurso called for nominations to fill the position of President pro tem because Derrico was unable to attend the meeting due to a personal engagment and Pugiliese had retired.
The members chose a pro tem President based on this information. No matter what law states anything or does not state anything, the members voted for a pro tem President for the meeting and for the meeting only.
So Biello is not pro tem President now, he was never selected by the members to serve as pro tem except for the duration of that meeting.
This was the basis under which this election took place. So to try and extend that term would not be honoring the terms under which Biello was chosen, he was not chosen to serve other than at that meeting.
Your logic would allow too many oppurtunities for manipulating the members vote.
It is very important that the terms on anything approved or decided by a vote of the membership not be manipulated to something else.
How do you know who would have run if it were for a position which would run until june as opposed to just for one night?
How do you know that the members would have voted the same way if it were for a President until June?
You have endorsed Biello as being the best man for the job. Yet you have never met him and do not know him. So how did you reach this conclusion?
You have never to the best of my knowledge attended one of our meetings, so what makes you think that there is not another member at our meetings better qualified?
Why do you think he would be better than Franco? Or Muesemucci ? Or Davenport? Or Corrigan? Or Capurso? Or Levi ? Or dozens of members who you have never heard of?
What makes you feel that you know so much more than the members who were at the meeting?
What makes you think that you are more qualified to speak on issues related to local 157 than the 157 members?
Dan Franco make people at the council nervous because he likes to be informed and will rigorously research what he says.
The bottom line is that the members did not select a person to fill the office of president pro tem until an election could be held, they selected a person to run the meeting on the understanding that this pro tem position was for the meeting only.
Now I believe that this subject has been beaten to death by you, let it go, it is not something which can be altered by debate, it is in the past and is thus unalterable, it has happened and cannot be changed. Mike Biello was chosen to serve as pro tem President for one meeting.  Now can we please get away from this  issue?
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Daniel J. Franco
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
Rich, it is a violation of the LMRDA to not send notice of an election in writing to the members at least 15 days prior to the vote. Therefore, any other union member elected as pro tem president/chairperson during a local union meeting cannot be a permanently installed officer. This not my opinion. It is the law. LMRDA, TITLE IV—ELECTIONS, Terms of Office; Election Procedures, SEC. 401 (a) through (e). http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/statutes/lmrda-act.htm and http://www.dol.gov/compliance/laws/comp-lmrda.htm .

Rich, do think it proper to have a surprise election for non-pro tem officers? Do you think it proper that an organization should be allowed have an election for non-pro tem officers, in particular a president, without ample notice in writing to all the membership? Do think it proper that non-pro tem officers be allowed to be elected by only the members present without prior notice, which at the March 21, 2011, LU157 meeting was at best 1/25th (4%) membership?

Rich, are you asking me to support violating the LMRDA by demanding that Bilello be acknowledged as a permanently installed officer of LU157 until our next election in June?

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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by Joe
"You have endorsed Biello as being the best man for the job." That is not true. I know nothing of Billello and am not supporting anyone.Nor am I unsupporting anyone such as Franco,John or anyone else. I am only trying to tell you something you are about to find out the hard way and give you warning to take action.

   What happens at any local in the UBC affects us all and until you stop letting the UBC scam the rules we all suffer.By debating this and proving what is the truth and what is not educates the members. It seems you are the only one to say 32d was not invoked.It is critical that in all cases the UBC is forced to adhere to the bylaws and rules for all our protection. With no insult intended by your post you have no clue what has happened and what is going to happen next. That is the problem.Your lack of knowledge is why the Fordes, Spencers and McCarrons have screwed us all this long. The UBC has screwed its membership because they do not educate themselves. When the UBC announces who your new President is and your shocked you will realize your lack of knowledge.Then come talk to me.I can only hope you learn from it and learn not to bite the hand that is trying to help you.
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

John Musumeci
Administrator
This post was updated on .
Here is the answer to my Pop Quiz:

If Lawrence is not present at the April meeting, and as Donny Arana has posted, "The UBC will officially announce Larry is gone," is Bilello President?

Background:
Lawrence D’Errico is still the President of LU #157 and both he and Vice President Anthony Pugliese were absent from the meeting on Monday, March 21st. 

Vice President Pugliese signed a letter of resignation resigning from his position as Vice President as stated by Financial Secretary Paul Capurso.
 
According to Capurso, in accordance with Section 32 D of the UBC Constitution, which states: “In the absence of both the President and the Vice President, the Recording Secretary shall call the meeting to order and those present shall elect a President pro tem”. 

The Recording Secretary opened the meeting and an election was held electing Brother Michael Bilello as pro tem President (pro tem derived from the Latin word pro tempore meaning for the time being; temporarily). 

Under his authority as pro tem President, Michael Bilello conducted roll call after which he appointed Brother Gerard Gausman as pro tem Vice President, as stated under Section 32 B, “When vacancies occur in any elective office of a Local Union or in the position of delegate to the Council from a Local Union, the President of the Local Union may appoint a qualified member to fill the vacancy pro tem, until such time as an election is held to fill the vacancy”. 

In the possible absence of President Lawrence D’Errico during our next scheduled meeting in April, we need to refer to Section 34 which states:

“The Vice President shall assist the President in the discharge of the official duties and shall perform the duties of President in the event of the absence of the president.  In the event of the death, removal or resignation of the President, the vice President shall fill the office of President, until such time as a President is elected”. 

Based on this section, pro tem Vice President Gerard Gausman would open the meeting in the absence of the President (Lawrence) in his capacity as pro tem Vice President. 

If Lawrence is out, as Donny has posted, "The UBC will officially announce Larry is gone."

Gausman serves ("shall fill the office") as President until such time as a President is elected," Which to my understanding our next election is scheduled for July, which we can verify with our Recording Secretary. 

I received this clarification from Chief Compliance Officer John Ballantyne.

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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Daniel J. Franco
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
RO Walsh caused the removal of several LU608 officers. Thereafter, McCarron decided to dissolve LU608 in December, 2010. Either RO Walsh couldn't oppose the LU 608 dissolution or he just didn't oppose the LU608 dissolution, as well as US Attorney Torrance, which sense it was the latter. Either way, LU608 was dissolved. Moreover, the LU608 dissolution wasn't opposed by its members, at least not officially in writing to Berman, or Walsh, or Torrance to my knowledge. There was no official concerted effort to have the dissolution stayed and reversed. So, regardless of what Walsh thinks or does, there is a real possibility of an ATTEMPT to put LU157 under supervision or dissolve it because this is a pattern/habit/personality trait of McCarron.
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by Daniel J. Franco
Dan  "Therefore, any other union member elected as pro tem president/chairperson during a local union meeting cannot be a permanently installed officer. This not my opinion."

This is you conclusion,opinion and interpretation based on what you read. Nowhere does the LMRDA  say this. You are stating this as your opinion. You told people to go read this section to better understand how Pro Tem works and how Chairman Duartion works. it shows them no such thing or even mentions Pro Tem. You have to draw your own conclusions as you have done.How many members are even close to grasping the LMRDA or know it exists as you do.

 "do think it proper to have a surprise election for non-pro tem officers?" That is the issue. Why did it happen. Why did Carpuso even do it when all he had to do was run the meeting. Why does Joe believe it did not even happen.When and if Derrico is removed your going to wonder if it was a set up or just a stroke of luck for the party involved.
 
The third part. I could care less but your not going to have a choice. Bilello is not the issue the procedure is the issue.Despite the storys being told a Pro Tem President was chosen and not a Pro tem Chair under Roberts Rules. Now your stuck with what happens next unless you hold the UBC to the rules which is my entire point.

By the way. Nopbody is made a permanent President or Officer and remains Pro Tem until a election is held. You know this so your question is mute

You have members cheering thinking Bilello is President Pro Tem and Gausman VP. You have members thinking Derrico is still President and Gausman is only VP for the meeting. You have members thinking there will be a Pro Tem election at the next meeting. How is all this confusion possible. Because of uneducated members. If this continues the UBC always wins. That is the issue not an individual
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Re: Pro Tem President/Chairman

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by Daniel J. Franco
Dan with 608 I believe Walsh did nothing because he wanted it gone. I thought 608 went after the new rank and file slate was elected. I was the first to ask why they did not get a lawyer and fight it. I was the first to ask why they did not at least appeal it. Now I hear they did consult a lawyer and were told it was useless and that is why they did not pursue it. Any truth to that Dan??
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