To R Dorrough and anon and the like

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To R Dorrough and anon and the like

bill lebo
With all due respect, your petty bickering and pseudo intellectual terminological inexactitudes really wear on members who are interested in what's really going on in our union. As far as I see there is only one person who's actually doing something to get the UBC out of here and get us rank and file elections and that's Mike Biello, and I can almost guarantee they will be rank and file elections, contrary to what those who are not in the know might say. Do us all a favor, knock off the nonsense and stick to the facts. Juncta Juvant (in union there is strength).
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Re: To R Dorrough and anon and the like

anon
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Re: To R Dorrough and anon and the like

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by bill lebo
Your right Bill and to you and the others I apologize. I am after all just a Carpenter who can act as rude and without class as the best of them. For the irritating posts I apologize. I will answer you and treat you with the same respect or disrespect you give to me. If you want to agree to disagree and debate regardless of differing opinions I am your man. If you come on here and hide behind you keyboard while you insult and talk trash I am going to give you the same. If your standing in front of me and call me an F... moron I am going to do my best to remove your teeth.That is my nature and for that I do NOT apologize.

But lets be clear.....
 
     This is not bickering or fighting amongst ourselves. This person IS NOT one of us. He is a council or UBC rat who since he showed up here has done everything he can to derail,discourage and misinform the rank and file. He works to discourage the members fighting the UBC whom he supports despite his recent "I am with the members BS."He is fishing for information and it is worrisome to see people sitting down in meetings, such as the AUD, with this rat and exposing their hand. They might as well put McCarron on speaker phone. He has attacked EVERY SINGLE person or group who has showed up here to come together and oppose McCarron or Spencer and the UBC.He posts UBC propaganda and misinformation meant to convince  the members that fighting against the UBC is futile. Ask him to produce one single complaint with any Federal Office or any grievance he has filed with the UBC against the wealth of corruption that is the UBC. There are NONE.

    He has had success in his mission in two ways. One is by getting members like me to waste my time responding to his insults and propaganda posts instead of focusing on other things. Not to worry. .I have time to maintain my webs site,expose his council and International rat buddies,pursue action against the UBC in court and call him the douche bag that he is.He has also got me to curtail my posts here due to John protecting him as he attacks and abuses real rank and file members.Otherwise I see him for the rat he is and make sure I expose him to everybody I can.

        So in closing may I say again I apologize for the childish behavior but to answer this rat in any other manner would be giving him something he does not deserve. You can see by his response to you that he is an arrogant and ignorant punk with a big mouth. I am going back not answering his posts but will continue to expose him for the UBC rat that he is. Good Luck.

   By the way. I have maintained my website out of my pocket for 3 years. I have filed 3 complaints with the NLRB,4 complaints with the DOL, challenged 3 corrupt elections,2 with ERISA,too many grievances with the UBC to count and worked every day to expose the corruption in the UBC,Empire Council and Local 370. I will shortly be filing in District Court for an injunction to stop the UBC from seizing our Local. I along with many other upstate members filed enough grievances with the UBC to get them to hold hearings and put the Empire Council in Trusteeship. It was our multitude of complaints that got the NY Office of the EBSA to finally investigate the Empire Funds. I am sorry you feel Biello is the only one fighting the UBC but we will keep plodding along regardless .
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Re: To R Dorrough and anon and the like

bill lebo
Rich, if what you say is true about your taking the UBC to task is true, then you have my respect. As to anon your right he's obviously a horses ass.
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Re: To R Dorrough and anon and the like

Donny Arana
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
You sound like a good man Richard Dorrough, would be nice to have a thosand or two guys like you down here on our team.
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Re: To R Dorrough and anon and the like

Richard Dorrough
Thank you Donny and know that I AM on your team. Even though I am not from the city what happens to you affects the future of all UBC members. When they do damage to you they do damage to me because after all I am your Union brother. We are supposed to have each others back. That is why I joined the Union. Beyond all the money and abuse it is the corruption of that particular aspect of the carpenters that bothers me. Brotherhood and Unity is worth more than any amount to me and by McCarron making us feel we count for less than nothing he has corrupted the feeling that "we belong" to something bigger than ourselves.

McCarron and the Fordes and the Spencers have tarnished the Brotherhood. Members are so discouraged,disillusioned and disenfranchised they are no longer willing to make sacrifices for each other. It used to be that like any other brotherhood you fooled(being polite) with one of us you fooled with us all. If a member needed it and you had extra they got your extra. If a member was hurt the next day he would see many members outside his door to help out. If a member needed food on his table the brotherhood would see to it he did not go hungry or we all went hungry together. Remember those days??
   Now since McCarron has made it all about money and corruption and not Brotherhood and Unionism it seems everybody is out for themselves. Now there has to be something to gain for sacrificing for each other. Now your a sinking ship and, unlike not long ago,you cant be sure somebody is going to throw you a line.

  McCarron has not only separated us from ourselves but from the Brotherhood and Union unity we shared with the other trades. Many trades do not welcome the carpenters any more. How can we hold our head up on job site and defend ourselves against the heckles when we have to admit that "yes" the UBC is screwing them. McCarron shields himself from the fallout of raiding other trades. He does so with us. It is you and I who have to slink away for what HE HAS done.His greed has cheated us out of our right to Brotherhood with many other trades. His greed has cheated us out of our right to be proud to be in the UBC. That is worse than any amount
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Re: To R Dorrough and anon and the like

bill lebo
One problem we have today is the membership. Most of the old time hardcore brotherhood men are either dead, retired, or just sick and tired of the fight. The younger membership doesn't know how it used to be, and I don't mean the corrupted mob scumbag sellout part of it. I mean the true I got your back bro part. Far too few of us remember the days when you shaped a job with a partner and when that job slowed down and one of you got the layoff check the other would turn to the foreman and say where's mine you lay him off you lay me off. They don't know how we put our lives on the line to turn jobs around. They don't remember when the steward was the most respected man on the job, now the steward is nothing more than a record keeper and usually the least respected man on the job, ( unfortunately it's usually the fault of the the steward).
 Another problem is delegate voting. How the hell did we give the president of the UBC so much power, what the fuck were the delegates thinking. Well, there you go, delegate voting. I said it in court in 96, it's easier to control 65 delegates than it is 6500 members. You only need 51% of the delegate vote in a secret ballot vote. A voice vote only requires control of the podium and gavel. The vast majority of the membership doesn't have a clue to what goes on at the General Conventions. I've never been, but I have read about a hundred years of convention minutes and have spoken to enough delegates to conventions to know how corrupted those conventions are. Members don't know about what would happen when a delegate got up to the microphone to speak against an issue that the General Executive Board wanted passed, how the microphone would be turned off and the delegate ushered away by the UBC's thugs. At this point in time we might as well not have any General Conventions, they're a waste of time and money. We might as well just give the General President full power do do whatever he wants without a voice of the members, he has it now anyway, just look at the UBC Constitution. If a local or council were to dissent, they would be dissolved by the GP at his discretion.
A union should be an organization for the members by the members, for the betterment of the lives of the membership. A protection against the abuses of the employers. A unit for bargaining collectively in good faith towards the improvement of its memberships lives and working conditions.
We have no real labor leaders. I keep hearing that we need to organize and get back the market share. I look back years ago to the ROY KAY RALLY. There was a reported 40'000 union members at that rally from all the trades. What did our  "leaders" do? Instead of taking that momentum and running with it, they tucked tails and ran.
Bottom line is along with all the legal battles certain members are fighting in our names, and I applaud them all, believe me I know what it's like.
 We need to elect new honest leaders who really care about the membership. We need to keep the Fordes and McCarrons out of office.
We the membership need to take back our union.
And lastly, like it or not, we need to keep the Dennis Walsh's in place in order to keep them honest and keep the mob and their ilk out of the mix.
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Re: To R Dorrough and anon and the like

Pete
Hey Bill,
I agree whole heartedly with the newer members not having the respect for the history of our fights and our loyalty to each other. Unfortunately, I believe that is a trend that supercedes not only labor, but, socially as well. This is a time where no body seems to matter except one's self. I had made mention in a post about the hoops that I personally had to jump through to get in the union when I was 18, ( a long time ago). Long story, short, I wanted in and did what ever I was directed to do inorder to reach that end. It was for me the first time that I felt that respect, pride and a sense of accomplishment. Due now, to affirmitive action and a push to swell our numbers for what I think is a bigger lobbying campaign, newer members will never have the same self respect and union pride, because, they simply can't relate to earning anything. Just being is all it takes to recieve the benefits that others had broke their backs for. I am tired of fighting, their aren't many people left worth fighting for. Too old to fight alone, too young to retire.
Where I do disagree with you is that Walsh is doing any good. So, no more Unity Team, big deal. Smoke and mirrors. He is only setting the table for a much more powerful and hungry pig and that swine doesn't even belong in our pen. EST can steal and take kick-backs to a point, before it gets too obvious even to the most blind of the membership. There was never a time that leadership didn't steal and take envelopes .....never. Not one of us thought we where joining a choir or church group, lets be honest. However, McCarron and all associated with him can go unchecked, because they are the checkers and use our money for the "greater good", of the whole Brotherhood. Running an oganisation such as this with 34,000 members ( I think) is a costly undertaking. How many members between here and Canada? Who else but us has that kind of money? Nobody! Think of the cash cow we would be for the International... a fucking ATM! So, please don't give McCarron's bus boy a pass. He will step on your back in a second, so can reach McCarron's zipper. Other than that, right on Brother.
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Re: To R Dorrough and anon and the like

listman
In reply to this post by anon
"What is needed is a membership base who are more informed and have a lot more say in the goings on at the council."


-----------Just how do you go about that, non, when an operative factor is the plan not to discusss urgent matters @ meetings. No info no problem !


"Powerless locals who exert no influence over the council are only exasterbating the problem".

----------GET INFLUENCE BACK, YOU HAVE AN INEFFECTUAL CEO SLAVEDRIVING $$ GRUBBING ASSOCIATION WITH CONTRACTORS WHEN YOU SURRENDER BEFORE NEGOTIATION, -OPEN THE BACK DOOR FOR THIEVES, THE MOBS TILL THERE C'MON non. Paid council employees ?
THAT'LL BE NEXT non, -  NO NEG'S, just McCarrons way.
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Re: To R Dorrough and anon and the like

bill lebo
In reply to this post by Pete
Pete I have to disagree, Walsh is no joke. He's extremely bright and relentless and he has struck the fear of god into the dirt bags. I could be wrong, but I believe having him in place along with Mack and the rest will help to keep things on the up and up. Will it cost us a fortune, yes, is he in McCarrons pocket I don't believe so. How much did Forde, Greeney and the rest cost us, I don't think we'll ever know the full scope of their theivery, but they did put an end to that. I believe we haven't seen the last of the indictments yet. I think Walsh is still putting together information that will further cleanout the house, so to speak. I can only hope I'm right. I see people in place that I know shouldn't be there, I'm sure he sees the same thing, I think he just has to nail all the facts down before he moves. I believe the only way our council will stay clean is to keep him in place for a long time in order to keep the scum from floating to the top.