Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

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Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Donny Arana
We have permits for rally april,1st at 395 hudson st,12:00 noon.We will also have permits for bullhorn. Spread the word and make sure you are there. The voices of the rank and file NYC carpenters will be heard loud and clear. Make sure you are there and plan on having a good time.The news cameras will be there as well.
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Richard Chopp
Donny, what will the loud and clear voices of the rank and file say?
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Donny Arana
You are the rank and file, what will you say?
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Richard Chopp
We here, we're queer, get use to it?  Seriously Donny, gather of the masses need direction.  You are organizing it, give us some goals and direction.  What do we want to accomplish with the rally?  I'm playing devil's advocate because I want it to be a success.  last thing I want to see is a call for action and have  people waste their time.  Even worse, I would hate to see senseless behavior.  All I'm asking is for you to organize with the other fellows and give us some direction.  
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Donny Arana
First of all this will be a peaceful demonstration. This will be our opportunity to exercise freedom of speech. There will be no dissension.  What I want to show them is if the members come together, we are a large massive force.  Most of all, we want to tell them that the members want their union back and we want to run our own council.  We want to vote and ratify our contracts.  I would like to have an election on all District Council Delegates, because these delegates were nominated and appointed by corrupt officials.  We will need alot of help.  I leave my e-mail address again aranacrew5@gmail.com, leave a message and a phone number and I will call you back.  We're going to need a few leaders to get involved and help out.  We need to organize properly.  Thanks.
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

John Musumeci
Administrator
Donny: anything I can do to help please let me know.
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

listman
In reply to this post by Donny Arana
 I would like to have an election on all District Council Delegates, because these delegates were nominated and appointed by corrupt officials.


GET THEM OUT FIRST, - FIRE THEM, - OPEN THE BACK DOOR, - SEND THEM TO ALASKA, - JUST GET THEM OUT !
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Richard Chopp
In reply to this post by Donny Arana
First of all this will be a peaceful demonstration. **How are you going to guarantee this?**

This will be our opportunity to exercise freedom of speech. **Check, true**

There will be no dissension. **far-fetched, you need dissension**
 
What I want to show them is if the members come together, we are a large massive force.
**Check, true**

Most of all, we want to tell them that the members want their union back and we want to run our own council.  ** We are under supervision for a reason, things have not changed enough to end supervision**
 
We want to vote and ratify our contracts.  **No rally will accomplish this goal**

I would like to have an election on all District Council Delegates, because these delegates were nominated and appointed by corrupt officials.   ** We are supervision for a reason, things have not changed enough to end supervision**

Donny, I think we need to simplify this whole thing.  This is a rally for NYC Solidarity.  The Goal is to have NYC Carpenters demonstrate that we are organizing the rank and file.  As you can see, I don't agree with some of your ideas, but I support us coming together to show our concern about what is going on with our union.  This simple goal is significant.  When was the last time NYC rank and file made their presence known?  By just showing up in large numbers across 395 will lead to more organize efforts. Before the rally we need a network of carpenters that represent all locals and would demand a sit down with International and Walsh to address xyz.  For example, can they take a poll of how many carpenters want supervision to end early? How many carpenters think we should have the right to vote for EST?  Don't assume that we all want the same thing.  If we were given the right to review and ratify contracts, how would we go about it?  Telling them what we want is one thing, telling them how we want it is just as important.  Overall, I appreciate people coming together for the cause. thanks.
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Donny Arana
In reply to this post by listman
Richard chopp you speak the truth and make alot of sense. I appreciate your feedback and comments. Me and my friends have the membership behind us. They know we are honest and willing to stick our necks out for them.  They know we will fight for them to the end, win or lose.  We need guys that are intelligent and educated to help us. I don't know you from Adam, but you sound intelligent and smart.  We will appreciate any help you can offer us (suggestions) and we would love for you to stand along side us on this fight.  Keep in touch, thanks.
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Donny Arana
In reply to this post by John Musumeci
John, thanks for the offer.  We are definately counting on you and your guys showing up and helping.  Keep in touch and give us some ideas and focal points and spread the word.  We have no choice but to make this a massive demonstration.  I plan on hearing about this all over the boroughs.  We need support from all the locals.  On April 2nd I want to hear all over town people talking about the massive demonstration that the Carpenters put together.  Thanks. Counting on your help.
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Richard Chopp
In reply to this post by listman
District Council delegates were elected at local union elections.  Since some were fired or retired, some were appointed.  Those "elected" were hand picked by Unity Team.  But elected never the less.  At the moment the problem is that while the delegate body was officially disbanded, they still meet monthly.  Where are the minutes, are they voting?, what is being discussed?, and why is the rank and file not allow to attend these meetings?  Spencer said that it was the delegates obligation to inform us.  I don't even know who my delegates are or what they do.  Before elections are in place, why don't we demand a change in protocol to allow more access to these meetings.  What is the point in electing new people if we don't get the information?  Open up the process Spencer.
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

listman
Transparency  is not in their vocabulary
Accountability "                                "

This is the design;

Tell them nothing at meetings
Shut down debate at meetings
We run the show
We'll carry McCarrons flag and cover for the Council
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

John Musumeci
Administrator
This post was updated on .
I have taken the liberty of making a rally handout. This is only a draft, it can be changed to whatever we want. I agree with Richard Chopp, This rally should have a clear message why we are protesting. "The Goal is to have NYC Carpenters demonstrate that we are organizing the rank and file."

As for specific demands, that should be dealt with by petitioning the Review Office. Spencer has been a complete failure and has insulted and ignored us throughout this supervision. There is absolutely no benefit bringing our concerns and issues to him. That is the simple goal we should all come together on.

That's my two cents, let me know what you think.

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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

anon
Banned User
This post was updated on .
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

John Musumeci
Administrator
Thank you Anon.
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Donny Arana
In reply to this post by John Musumeci
John I  agree with some of your points and it is a good flyer. Put your name on your flyer not mine. You can be a contact name on the flyer you put together. I will put my name on my flyer. Hopefully other people will get involved and make their own flyers as well. We will have a private meeting two weeks before rally with various leaders, you will be invited. Thanks for the help and keep sreading the word. My phone and email has been ringing off the hook. I think rally will be huge sucess.Thanks.
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

John Musumeci
Administrator
This post was updated on .
Donny: Email me your flyer or draft so I can see what you have in mind. I really don't think there should be different flyers made up by different people with different themes. The rally and it's message should be very clear not mixed.

Is your flyer issue driven? You wrote "I agree with some of your points." The points in my draft handout are Fact not my opinion.

Maybe we can combine our flyer, if not, lets use your flyer. I will post your flyer in the main section of the blog, make copies, hand it out and spread the word. I do not think competing flyers with competing messages is in the best interest of the rally. What is important is a clear message and a successful rally. What does everyone else think?
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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Richard Chopp
So this is NOT a rally to come together, but a call to remove Frank Spencer? OK, I doubt that will happen, but if it did, what are you proposing?  Elections for EST?  So they remove him and bring someone else, what then?  To me, I want a rally to demonstrate that the rank and file are organizing themselves and the rally is just the beginning.  

My opinion: As long has Spencer is not sniffing coke in his office, I think he is step ahead of what the members elected for 12 years.  Spencer is here for a reason.  I'm not supporting him, I'm support the changes that are taking place.  That is not to say I'm singing his praises.  Spencer has made PLENTY of mistakes.  He was ill prepare for the 157 meeting, half answered many of the questions, and looked flustered.   The process has been two step forward, one step back.  But This is not the same DC the Unity Team left behind.  At this moment I don't trust that good honest people will be elected.  A recently merged local of about 11,000 members had its first official meeting.  Less than 300 people show up to this important meeting and you had the likes of Sean Firth leading the hackles. C'mon people! And you want to elect a new EST, ratify contracts? At this moment, those that know about this blog and jawin are a minority.  We need to start reaching those members that have given up, are not informed, and those that don't care.  Initially we are all not going to have the same opinions, that's ok.  We can still come together to show solidarity.

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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

John Musumeci
Administrator
Richard: It is a rally to come together, we can come together and demand Spencer resign as supervisor. The hand out is only a draft, and I wrote it since Donny posted, "Egyptians are on to something."

I have no illusion that Spencer would resign or be removed, and I really don't care if he stays. He is irrelevant, his dismal performance is something that the members can come together on.

You wrote: "Spencer is here for a reason. I'm not supporting him, I'm support the changes that are taking place."

Review Officer, Dennis Walsh is making all the recommendations and changes taking place, making very good use of his veto power. If it was up to Spencer there would be little change and the 25 council employees who were either forced to resign, retire, fired or just fled would still be here.

You also wrote Spencer "was ill prepare for the 157 meeting." How is that possible? Dennis Walsh was not ill prepared. Spencer has been involved with the supervision supporting Forde and all his cronies going back to 2007. Read the letter I sent Spencer in 2009 when the supervision started, he named two criminals, Peter Thomassen, as his assistant and Martin Deveraux, as business manager of Local 608.

Spencer has not been part of the solution, he has been part of the problem.



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Re: Rally April,1st- at 395 Hudson st-Permits are in place

Richard Chopp
 John you said, "I have no illusion that Spencer would resign or be removed, and I really don't care if he stays. He is irrelevant."  
--- I agree and calling for his removal as the main purpose of a rally is futile.

You said, "Review Officer, Dennis Walsh is making all the recommendations and changes taking place, making very good use of his veto power. If it was up to Spencer there would be little change and the 25 council employees who were either forced to resign, retire, fired or just fled would still be here."
--- Again I agree.  That's why demanding a new guy to be appointed makes no sense to me.  Walsh has worked with Spencer and he has taken some positive steps.  I'm more interested in demanding obtainable goals, such as getting delegate minutes, than I am of getting a brand new UBC puppet.    

I have no idea why Spencer was ill prepared.  I think it's hard to feed the UBC crap to an angry crowd.   What we saw was that Walsh answered the questions pose to him and he appeared sincere.  Until supervision ends, we will continue to get a McCarron puppets.  Why are we wasting our time with them?   A rally calling for Spencer's resignation would be a waste of our time.  
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