Out of Towners?

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Re: Out of Towners?

BKLYN
Hey Joel, great research. good links. I had not seen that. Did you notice that only $4mil will fix the issue? In that area its roughly16 houses. And who pays for any large public works projects? We all do. Should NYC not be here anymore, one of the most important cities in the world at this time in history? Well, even the romans knew that without clean water you're nothing and no population can exist for long withouit it. Who paid to get to the natural aquifer in Florida? We all did. Who maintains the everglade water content in partnership with the alliance? We all do(corps of engineers) so that argument doesn't hold water. NYC residents pay $10 billion more in NYS taxes than we receive in services, with a disproportionate amount of money going to upstate communities. We pay to keep the whole state solvent. The least that could be done for us would be to help insure NYC residents get first crack at jobs. Money that leaves NYC almost NEVER comes back just as  money  that leaves the US   rarely comes back. And since you live in FLA, who do you think paid to both dredge and increase in size the port complex? And I think as a nation we need to do more of these huge projects that can only be for the greater good. This isn't about me against you, this is about fair and equitable solutions for MY HOME, NYC. You really have no say in this.Living in Fla you're not even a part of the problem , let alone part of the solution. Thanks again for the links. Take Care.
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Re: Out of Towners?

Joel Cook
I paid dues for almost 30 months as a member of local 157 and worked only about 4 of those months!  I only left NY because I could no longer afford to live there and support my family, it became unsustainable.  As I have already stated I intend to return home to NY after I take care of some things.  So I feel like I have an interest in what happens there and I will continue to voice my opinions.

I agree, there should be huge infrastructure projects happening all over our crumbling country which is something we should all be rallying around and fighting for.  

My reason for pointing out that NYC is dependent on the rest of the state is because the arraignment is reciprocal or symbiotic if you will.  
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Re: Out of Towners?

BKLYN
I dig it Joel. 4 months desn't pay the bills or feed the progeny. Actually I like that you speak up, its good for all of us to talk. But I must point out again the huge disparity in monies paid to NYS by NYC residents as compared to upstate NY. Do you know that school districts upstate get substantially more money per student than NYC? I thinks its like 1.5 to1. NYS is dependent on the existence of NYC, you got that one backwards. And where exactly did all that so called stimulus money for large public projects go? Most of it has never been allocated as jobs had to be shovel ready to be considered. What a crock of propaganda that bit was. The only symbiosis I see is they have great forests and lakes that aren't possible in highly populated cities like NYC and we go up there and spend our money on vacation. Can you say price gouging joel? Take care bud.
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Re: Out of Towners?

Joel Cook
http://empirezone.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/the-highest-per-pupil-spending-in-the-us/

"New York State spent $14,119 per student — more than any other state in the nation — in the 2005 fiscal year, according to a national analysis of public school spending that the Census Bureau released today.

To be sure, within states, there are often great disparities between individual school districts. The Census analysis found that in New York City, the largest school district in the country, per-pupil spending was $13,755 — about 2.6 percent less than the state average. Inequities in school financing are at the heart of the lawsuit brought by the Campaign for Fiscal Equity against New York State."

2.6% is hardly close to 50%....

There is currently a show on the Discovery Channel where this engineer goes around the country inspecting America's infrastructure and finds all manner of failing structures.  I have not been able to turn it on because its heartbreaking to see all that work that MUST be done and we still have 10% unemployment and spend billions destroying and rebuilding other countries!  

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Re: Out of Towners?

BKLYN
Hey Joel, get current figures. That was SIX years ago and that story was flawed as it didn't use the whole NYC school budget including all the bureacracy but only money that went directly to students in NYC whereas they used total figures for upstate school districts. They didn't count ANY of the money used to renovate old schools in NYC or to build new ones. I know the school you went to in the bronx wasn't new so you can understand that I know.Even Pataki recognized this when asked. You can't figure a cost per anything if you're not including the entire budget Joel. Now find the average commute time for LI residents and the average for NYC residents as opposed to what they each spend to get to work and distance travelled.  And then check the MTA budget and see where the money for LIRR and Metro North come from. I'll look for the discovery piece. It kills me that both sides (dem, rep) have used the so called stimulus for propaganda when that money has barely been tapped. Create jobs Obama said.  Rebuild our country he said. Then he licked the balls of the republican party and agreed to only allocate monet to jobs that were ready to go. Thats an impossibility as anytime you build a bridge, or a dam, or even a road the municipality has to do enviromental impact studies which sometime cost hundreds of thousands if not millions and take time. No responsible community had these studies done as they knew they didn't have the money to build, so why waste on speculation and hoping for miracle money to appear? Obama used phony stimulus tp scam all of us and pretend he is for the worker. I worked for and voted for the guy so I'm pissed. He is just like the rest, for big oil and big money.  How much spent in Iraq? How much MISSING in Iraq? We sent pallets of cash to the Iraquis? Why not a skid or two to my apt.? At least I would have spent it here in NYC.
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Re: Out of Towners?

Joel Cook
You must be extra dissapointed since you worked on the campaign.  I didnt even vote for him, I voted for Nader.  I was up on 125th st at the Clayton Powell Building on election night though.  I was covering it for The Indypendent and the energy was so powerful that even a cynical son of a bitch like myself was sucked in.
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Re: Out of Towners?

Rev Al
I was hoping to hear from NJ + LI members. What's the problem ? Are you for full mobility ?
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Re: Out of Towners?

Rev Al
With all the locals closing down I have to wonder if these members are going to try & come to NYC's 5 boroughs ? How about it NJ & LI & PA ? Are you for or against full mobility ? Dont give me the crap about the term 100% mobility. It's time for all 5 borough LOCAL TAX payers to inform OUT OF TOWNERS to go to the back of the bus & go home. This is especially meant to the boundry state maggots like NJ & LI & PA. Local 14a is also going to fight along side the 5 borough carpenter. This fight has started to get alot of support & is just getting started !
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Re: Out of Towners?

jersey carpenter
In reply to this post by steward
what you assholes need to keep in mind is this new council is talking about dumping our money into your now broke pension system to help you guy's retire w/ a little dignity and $$ . before you start motherfucking us to death realize this brother ; were here to help each other !!
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Re: Out of Towners?

Rev Al
Keep dreaming. Are you guys going to volunteer to pay the 5 borough LOCAL tax ? Are you for or against full mobility ? By the way Im not coming to NJ or LI or PA. Out of towners go home !
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Re: Out of Towners?

Levi
In reply to this post by Rev Al
    What about those of us who live on LI within the jurisdiction of the NYCDCC? Whatever your answer is doesn't matter because any member of the NYCDCC has the right to work there. Your attitude towards your union brothers and sisters sucks. You sound like a selfish prick so fuck off.
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Re: Out of Towners?

BKLYN
C'mon Levi, read all the posts. Like I've consistently said this needs to happen over time, and I dont understand how the NYDCC controls Nassau. Either make LI part of our DC or make it all the new council made from jersey and empire. But like I said the accounting problems associated with this are beyond me. Jersey, you guys are the ones in trouble and if anyone tries to combine mine with yours and the empire I'll throw a fucking conniption and RUN to a fed judge for an injuction pending discovery and to the people who administer ERISA. Why is the mere suggestion that we all work in the states in which we live such a problem? Because you people think you're entitled to gain the benefits of NYC without also being part of what happens here. No society has ever allowed people with no real interest in it to decide what happens to it. Why do you think NYC has to even care what you think? (the municipality NYC) The simple fact is  this subject, changed since Pete began it, has garnered more interrst than any other post here ever. What does that tell you? If a guy from Indiana should belong to an Indiana local and work there, why is it OK for a Jersey guy to not belong to a Jersey local? Just by virtue of Jersey and LI being closer to NYC? HHUUUUHHHHH???? Hows that cake that you're saving/eating guys? LI has a case. Jersey ,PA and CONN have nothing to say. You're either for mobility or against it. I ask again, where are all our pseudo leaders on this isuue which your brothers and sisters obviously care very much about?  They're ALL politicians thats why they take no stand. As always its up to the rank and file to discuss and hash out. Happiness and peace to all.
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Re: Out of Towners?

Rev Al
LI has no case because they dont pay LOCAL tax. The guys from  NJ & PA will quickly argue that LI isnt paying LOCAL tax & Rev Al would agree with NJ & PA. I am a patriot who is defending 5 borough turf & am mostly applauded by 5 borough taxpayers. This issue of full mobility will be ruled on in the courts & the NYCDCC will have to live with the decision. Carpenters are allready coming from out west & want to hold a NYCDCC card. How are they different from members from NJ,LI & PA ? Are you for or against full mobility ? You are able to change your mind on this issue but I assure you 5 borough LOCAL taxpayers are not going to change their mind. We are fed up & dont care which non-paying shithole your from. OUT OF TOWNERS GO HOME !
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Re: Out of Towners?

Levi
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by BKLYN
BKLN- As I have said, I would have no problem with the commuter tax. Why do you think it was repealed?
Al- LI is not a border state. Long Island is in NYS. If you refer to people as maggots you will get angry posts which miss the mark to an equal degree.
     I will always contend that your argument is political. I thought this site was about unionism. I live in the same state as you and hold the same card. We are brothers. We took an oath to help each other. Why are you against me? Have you forgotten your oath or do you not live up to your word? I don't know if there's a third choice.
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Re: Out of Towners?

Rev Al
In reply to this post by Rev Al
If 5 borough LOCAL tax carpenters win this case, are the members who lost their homes entitled to damages from NYCDCC & UBC ? The fact that the NYCDCC is under supervision has turned into a blessing for NYCDCC members & this issue will also prove to be a home run for 5 borough LOCAL taxpaying members. Mcarron will wish he never brought up the term FULL MOBILITY. Did anyone say discrimination ?
owl
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Re: Out of Towners?

owl
In reply to this post by jersey carpenter
NJ is really poaching on jobs in ny .they are offering the fish market in the bronx 200 million to move to nj.

nj got the statue of liberty already
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Re: Out of Towners?

Joel Cook
Thats it, fight amongst yourselves.  Maybe you wont notice the splintery high arsenic level PT 2x4 getting shoved in your ass...
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Re: Out of Towners?

BKLYN
and the weird way your body parts fall of after awhile! Joel, discussing issues that come next isn't fighting. In my neighborhood growing up it wasn't a fight until someone was lumped up and the cops were doing more lumping. This is good clean Unionism at its Best Joel. It really is. At least people are talking about the future structure instead of just complaining. Big step bud. Dig your Head!
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Re: Out of Towners?

BKLYN
In reply to this post by Levi
Because as I have said before there are many more State legislators from outside NYc than from NYC and for some odd reason I just can't fathom ( and I have a pretty fucking active imagination) things that directly affect NYC arent decided by NYC pols but by the state legislature. Now theres a big thing that makes you go HUH! I am not against you, I am for me and mine, with you as a secondary consideration. Isn't that exactly the way people from places outside of NYC have always thought about and acted towards NY'ers? Go into the city and take a job from a NYC resident. Nice. But I'm selfish to ask you to work where you live? How does this not make sense Levi? Yet you aren't as big an issue, being at leats in NYS, as the pieces of crap who come in from Jersey and Conn and PA. Join the local at least in your own state. What is the problem, it may harm you personally in the form of a worse package than NYC offers? Yet I'm the selfish one! Come fucking on! Anyone who thinks its OK to take jobs from the members who actually live in a jurisdiction isn't a fucking UNION man. Plain and simple. Give me whats mine and I'll give you whats yours. How is that not fair? Non residents get work after residents in a jurisdiction. What does Dennis think?
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Re: Out of Towners?

Rev Al
We're not going away.A Bloomberg aide is reading this blog + is very supportive of 5 borough LOCAL taxpaying members. This will be looked at by many top council reps + has alot of support . This will be their next big fight for 5 borough taxpayers !
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