Yes, Union and political issues often overlap but they need to be addressed in their proper place.I believe the commuter tax is the proper recourse for your issue. You obviously disagree.Fine. I hope you were not referring to me when you wrote that somebody was thinking only of themselves. There is nothing selfish in the way I have ever conducted myself. You, on the other hand, I'm not so sure of. It seems as though you would have me stand behind you on the work list by virtue of where you live. And you overlook the fact that I live on LI, well within the jurisdiction of the NYCDCC. Using your logic, you should stay in Brooklyn, in your local jurisdiction. I will stay in NYNY, in my local jurisdiction. But even that is not enough for you. You want to work in my local jurisdiction before me. So, yes, I think that's unreasonable. Look for me at the rally, we can disagree on this but we are still brothers.
No Levi, didn't mean you. I don't think you're selfish as I've read a lot of the good that comes out of your mouth. But I also suggested that the NYDCC give up floorcovering, and dockie work on the Island to the Empire (levi, I am your father) and whatever we erroneously claim to belong to us. The members of my local benefit sometimes from having LI as our jurisdiction,( 7 cuts our throat sometimes) but Unionism isn't about just me, but whats right for all workers. I would love to see LI and above Westchester given to the Empire. I just feel as if it would be the fair and equitable way of living, instead of folks benefitting from the city but putting virtually nothing into it. You know, a year or two ago a friend complained about his LIRR fair which monthly had gone to like $300. I asked how many miles he lived from Penn and he told me 70 or so. I then informed him, as my friend , that he was a fucking crybaby as my commute by bus cost $200 monthly. I live 8 miles from Penn. Wheres the fairness in that? I know you're focused on commuter tax but the "wheres your jurisdiction, really " issue has some merit. More please, lets hearmore intelligent thought provoking comments. Very cool to get things out there, isn;t it? And Pete, sorry my idea disrupted the original convo and thanks to, I think Ted, for the answer.
When are LI guys going to pay local or nyc tax ? Live out in exit 70 for all I care but take a seat behind the members who pay the freight. Only an asshole would live in exit 70 & that is YOUR choice but we in the 5 boroughs dont have to play stepchild to you leaches. One other thing, dont have us lock the gangboxes because you have a train to catch or the first snowflake comes down. FUCK YOU & your line of entitlement. GO TO THE BACK OF THE BUS !
BYKLN - your welcome, here is the UBC Local 43 (McDowell Building & Foundation) and Kevin Lebovitz case-law submitted. NOTE: Post New Process Steel, neither NERCC or their attorney Souris, Krakow & Birmingham, nor Kevin Lebovitz himself filed an Enforcement measure to have the 12-31-09 slip opinion from the NLRB Board "enforced". I did that personally, through phone calls to DC & the NLRB General Counsel and through a letter submitted August 5, 2010 directly to the GC.
NERCC has steadfastly refused to comply with the Decision & Order (D & 0), and failed/refused to post anyone of the Decisions of the NLRB Board in any of the 27 Local NERCC Union Hiring Halls.
Leave an e-mail & I will shoot you a copy of the letter to the NLRB Board.
Past this: GOOGLE RTW States, you will find NEW YORK is not one of them. Under the NLRA & furthered by Supreme Court precedent(s), Federal Pre-emption does not apply, thus - State Law(s) control Right to Work issues and the matter would be tried in the State of New York and not at the Federal level.
The NLRA (bottom right on www.nlrb.gov) Section 14(b) Governs RTW issues relevant to Union & Non-Union Labor issues, of which this "JURISDICTIONAL ISSUE" is but one.
Following this is the Supreme Court precedent/landmark cases relevant to property rights (what constitutes "PROPERTY") which I will leave out of the conversation for now.
First, people need to wrap their minds around this issue per the above.
For those inclined to argue these legal points, the only thing the UBC or a Council can do is to redefine a "LOCALS JUURISDICTIONAL AREA - CITIES & TOWNS DEFINED IN THE CONTRACT, THE CBA"), past that - the UBC INTERNATIONALS Doug McCarron or the clowns running any of the 38 UBC Councils haven't a legal leg to stand on.
RO Walsh & his staff of Attorneys should pursue this issue as well & I note that they are not here to side with the UBC, with Judge Conboy & push the UBC's agenda upon the rank & file as a fait accompli, yet it appears the good ole boys club is fast at work to do just that, particularly given that lame presentation described in the 57 (1/2 page) transcript for the April 6th "conference".
For a Federal Court, allowing this to go on is a disgrace. Judge Berman should be constrained to formal Motion practice, per the Federal Rules of Civil procedure and force the UBC to submit formal briefs on each & every issue they argue for under the consent decree. The wink-wink, nod-nod shananigans going on in that court are a complete joke.
Barring that, Berman should be removed and replaced by a judge who will follow the rule of law!!
I agree, it's great to go back and forth with the convo. so here's one more shot. Don't forget that people who commute bring much commerce to NYC. Many of us patronize the businesses in the city. Personally, I love NYC and contribute in many ways because it has so much to offer. NYC depends on outsiders to bring commerce to keep its economy thriving. We are an important asset so don't alienate us. Check us out at the stadiums, clubs, film festivals, bars, restaurants, museums, coffee carts,stores,etc....You're welcome. Hey BKLN, how about posting something about the rally?
When there is more to post than the rhetoric I will. It should be an interesting day, but I think they say rain? And overnight I came to the conclusion that we at the NYDCC are in an inextricable situation as we need the bennie hours that come in from that work on LI and up north and the dockie work in Jersey to keep making our pesion payments. This began long ago but there has to be an equitable solution. And agian to you others, I did not advocate you not working here just NYC residents getting first crack. Every PLA has caveats like this why not our CBA's? Again, how can you be for people who don't live here having NYC cards but not for people who live further away having NYC cards? Say ohio, Kentucky, Arizona...either you're for mobility or against it and the proof is how you/we react when it is about our/your mobility. So its OK for Jersey to be mobile here but not other states? Because you can't be for some form of mobility and against other forms. Where are our self annointed leaders, Arana, Moose, both Billies (be heard Bay Ridge) Gene...politicians all as they won't touch this discussion with a ten foot pole. Take care Levi, I'll come say Hi wed.
Dont back down or get soft on this issue 5 borough taxpaying residents. Do not concede anything & remember the nyc guys pay the taxes. This issue will not be comprimised on + is headed right to the courts. We need to be more like local 14a if we're going to survive. No givebacks on any issue & start getting tough. I will take a lawsuit out on my own if I have to. No more of this out of town bullshit no matter where your from. Fuck anyone who doesn't see it this way !
Rev Al, If you're referring to me you have the wrong guy. I live well within NYCDCC jurisdiction. I have said before that I have no problem with the commuter tax. You should fight for it. I will work in my local jurisdiction.
You had a decent argument until you lost it at the end. So fuck you. Ha.
No, this is something that has to happen at some point. The current system corrupts all that labor is, which is getting fair work close to home. Thats part of the original point was to not force people to work far away from home for a fair living wage. But I don't know how to move ahead with the accounting that would have to happen to make it so. I listen brother to reasonable dissent and still hold my opinion. Thats what reasonable people do, and isn't that just what we're asking of the UBC, to be reasonable? Has to start with us. We can disagree and push for the things we want. I continue, like I've said umpteen times, to call for NYC dwelling members to get put to work first, then fill the job with others. Bloomie, are you listening? How much more city income tax would that be? And yes, I know when you come to work you eat and drink here, but when you come for pleasure its only because your towns don't have what we have and that has nothing to do with work. When I use yor beaches and woods I also spend money.And thats not a knock at where you live, just a fact. Trust me brother, the taxes we pay , the money we spend here in our city, far exceed anything anyone brings in. If we put more NYC member residents to work NYC will see a rise in revenue. In fact tomorrow I'm writing a letter to the Mayor asking him to consider it being put into all city work contracts. All the money should not be leaving the city to support other places. Understand, I said PLACES not people. Just like money leaving the US, its not good for the municipality.
What are your grounds for this measure. By the way, the commuter tax was stopped by Mayor Giullianni. I suppose that we will pass a law that all people that live in Long Island will work on Long Island, all people who live in Westchester will work in Westchester, all people who live in Rockland will work in Rockland, and all people who live in Jersey will work in Jersey. Sound good right. Guess what, no body will come NYC for business or pleasure. How about you brush up on your skills, and give the boss a fair shot, and improve your atttitude. Stop blaming your brothers and sisters from the New York City District Council of Carpenters who live outside the city lines for the poor economy. The last time I checked this was still the United States of America and we are allowed to live wherever we choose. Oh and just a little info for you:
UNLESS YOU ARE A GOVERMENT EMPLOYEE, IT IS ILLEGAL TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST A PERSON BASED ON WHERE THEY LIVE!!!
The point is whenever there is Federal, State or Local tax monies involved in a project you are in essence a govt. employee and seperate rules can apply. Such as local hiring first, piss testing, background investigations, swac cards, propeller hats, etc. etc. If a large percentage of local tax money is being used in project there are usually ancillary reasons for the funding. Primary reason to build the thing. An ancillary reason could be to stimulate the economy of the area--hence preferential local hiring. This is no more anti-american than having a hiring practice that only hires union carpenters.
No, you're wrong brother. And Yes, I do have balls. It is not illegal for contracts to have resident caveats. If we build to stimulate the economy, wouldn't you think that means stimulating the economy of the LOCAL area? Not Kentucky or Arkansas or even LI but the LOCAL area. My question to you is why aren't you in the local where you live? Are you that ashamed of your home? And if you're such a gung ho union member, why aren't you working to build the union where you live? The balls? Did you read the post about a friend paying only $100 more a month to get to work despite living 10 times further from the work> How about this...did you know the Verrazno bridge recently went to $13? Do you know where all monies taken in above operating expenses go to the LIRR and Metro North? Why the fuck am I subsidizing your ride to work when I travel inside my own city? Yeah I have balls, and dont forget it! GO HOME! You love where you live so much, work there. And again schmuck boy, I said it loads of times...nyc residents get to the job first (you and I know it would be about half the job) then you others. Again, if you have nothing netter to say than abuse GO HOME and build up the union where you are from. You are the ultimate form of mobility and that sucks brother. Maybe its time to talk to judge Berman.
Brothers and sisters, we need to stop the bickering and infighting. I know that sometime in the very near future there will be so much work, all of the bads times we have seen over the past 3 years will seem like a bad memory. When the good times come back we want to be able to work with each other like we always have. As a wise man once said "Words are like bullets in a gun. Once you let them go you can't get them back." Be well brothers!!
What do I have to do to get an investigation at WTC. Dont worry, this is just the tip of the iceberg + soon this will stop. The next few weeks should be very interesting. Out of towners will soon be shipping out because the free ride is over !
"I know that sometime in the very near future there will be so much work, all of the bads times we have seen over the past 3 years will seem like a bad memory."
We're not angry about just the last three years, try 16.
And no, - simply going back to work and moving forward seems reticent at best. The UBC and the NYCDCC have ruined any chance more work will help us. Others will come in to do it. Our jurisdiction does not need every swinging dick from a coast to coast company friendly atmosphere continuing to descimate our work list.
I know you read this blog Walsh so here is my question. How many out of town, non 5 borough tax paying residents are at WTC ? Bloomberg aide's & lawyers are awaiting your response & now read this blog. UBC & Out of towners are in a catch 22. Every pro response on this issue comes from a member who doesn't pay the tax. As RO you should be making sure this isn't FULL MOBILITY. While you are at it Walsh, check out all hiring practices at WTC & remember this is taking place under your watch.- HINT- Look no further than the company men & start watching them clam up. Remember Walsh, tax paying members are going to hold YOU accountable. Define FULL MOBILITY @ TOMORROW'S MEETING & is nycdcc acting illegally under your watch. Have fun & remember to be clear & not waffle !