Do you think its fair that non LOCAL TAXPAYING members hold NYCDC cards ? If you do how is a guy from KENTUCKY different than LI, PA +NJ. Dont forget to read old posts from LEVI before you vote. Do you pay 14$$$ for a bridge+ city tax & have guys go out before you ? Lets hear it STATEN ISLAND !
Dont vote for Levi or any opther creep who thinks anyone should be able to hold NYCDC CARD. LI,PA + NJ dont pay NYC LOCAL TAX just like Florida,Vegas or any other shithole. 5 BOROUGH LOCAL TAXPAYERS come first. SHITHOLE = Camden ,Hempstead , Stroudsburg. Stop being the leeches + maggots that you are + stay in your shitholes !Remember , DONT VOTE FOR THESE OUT OF TOWN NYCDC CARD HOLDERS. SEND THEM BACK TO THEIR SHITHOLES !
..."Still, the costs of commuting -- in gas, congestion, pollution, sprawl -- are high. Commuting is also associated with raised blood pressure, musculoskeletal disorders, increased hostility, lateness, absenteeism, and adverse effects on cognitive performance. Harvard University public policy professor Robert D. Putnam, author of Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community, says that for every 10 minutes of commuting time, one's social connections get cut by 10%. Imagine what that means when it's not a matter of minutes but hours."
Jesus fucking christ, the only issue you idiots have is 5 BOROUGH LOCAL TAX. Every fucking post, LOCAL TAX,LOCAL TAX, LOCAL TAX, LOCAL TAX. Guys that commute from Jersey, PA, etc pay way more than that probably in a week between tolls, gas, parking, and trains. Sounds to me like your more concerned that guys that live outside of the city are taking more home in the check (which is definitely not the case after costs) and less concerned with being part of a union and making things good for everyone, not just your fucking self. Nobody is leeching, they are just working. The only reason it could possibly upset you that much is that your not working. I couldn't be more proud when I meet guys from all over the place traveling just to work and support their families and the union as a whole. Nobody ever guaranteed us work, you knew that unemployment was a possibility from the beginning. When Las Vegas and Hawaii, and Canada had a boom, what did they do? Invited anyone interested into there local areas to work. You know why? Cause they are fucking union members who had an interest in union members well being, not just themselves. They didn't say "us first" they welcomed all. That's what a union is. You keep saying "out of towners get to the back of the bus", which is an obvious racial epitaph about black people from back in the day, but instead your referring that phrase to your union brothers and sisters. Do have any idea how uneducated, selfish, prejudice and ridiculous that makes you sound. Your no better than the racist and prejudice assholes of those days by saying that. I couldn't be more digusted, whether you made any valid points or not, with people like you being part this union. Your attitude is what makes us move back instead of forward. Stand together, not against.
jason us city folk are only practicing what you jersey and long island guys preach. we live here in the city and cant get work but you out of towners are douing great in the city and dont spend anything here.then they raise my property taxes and you go home smiling.there is a predjudice against city people on long island and jersey that you dont want to admit to 157,608.45,296 are city locals we should come first
I run into NYC carpenters, and PA, and Connecticut in NJ all the time, especially floor layers from NYC and have no problem with it. How do NJ people go home smiling? NJ has the highest property taxes in the country. The company I work for now sent me NYC once to work and I prefer to stay in Jersey but if they send me there I'm going. For 7 dollars an hour more, in my eyes, it's not at all worth it. Between gas, tolls, parking, and trains it easily costs 50 or 60 a day just to go there, so I don't see how you think NJ people are making the "big bucks" by working there.
As far as the amount of work goes, it's tough for everyone. I hear guys complain all the time about not working and when I ask what they have done about it, it's always the same. "I'm on the list" "I called one company back". Shit is tough as hell right now but there IS work, and people need to be way more aggressive. Send in applications to EVERY company you can think of, even if you haven't worked for them(worked for me many times) call old companys back once a week and don't stop, be willing to travel if they ask you too, make as many friends as possible and never burn a bridge and work your ass off. I'm not saying you haven't done these things, I'm just saying complaining won't get you anywhere and by being aggressive Ive maintained good employment.
NYCDCC has been declared an "Exclusive Hiring Hall" by the NLRB in the Gene Clarke case, which remains "good law" at the NLRB, or Board level. The Second Circuit upheld that decision on a challenge by the UBCJA.
50-50% Rule, Duty of Fair Representation, Discrimination, Shape Halls
DECISION & ORDER of NLRB dated April 30, 1986
At a minimum, NYCDCC should be assigning 90% of all Carpenters to all projects, as the "exclusive source of referrals". You guys have had McCarron, Spencer & Ballantyne execute 130+ Project Labor Agreements (PLA's).
DECISION & ORDER of THE SECOND CIRCUIT
Next time your out of work, go find a PLA job, make like your a guy w/o a book and tell them you'd like to hire on as a "Carpenter".
I will guarantee you, per the General Conditions of the PLA Contract executed, the secretary or field/office engineer will SEND YOU BACK TO THE HALL (NYCDCC or a LOCAL closest to where you live). Do this first, do it on 10-PLA job's with some of your friends, document it and go file the charges. The Consent Decree does not in and of itself subsume or swallow the rules (attorney phrase) of every other law or case on the book. note: The Government waived these arguments in their application to the Court & Judge Haight and make sure you note that to the Board Agent or the Information Officers taking the charge.
This is the longest running topic on 157 blogspot, with the most amount of hits....so it's time for one of you or a group of you to stop talking about it and go do something about it...and I say this with all due respect...time to file the charge.
Jason and others who dont get it...its about those of us from this city watching our brothers and sisters losing their homes while people, who by all thats right and moral, should belong to a local in their home area come to work here. Its about NYC losing money to your municipality that would have stayed in NYC otherwise, entirely, instead of just your 10 or 20 dollars a day. See when people who live in a town are employed that town doesn't have financial issues. But so many of the jobs here go to guys who never lived in this city and just come for the money, yet give nothing back to this city. Thats the issue. I live here, pay my bills here, shop here, play here...get it? The majority of my money goes to keep my city viable and alive, while most of the money you take out of here will never come back. Its not about screwing anyone, its about fairness. The only two reasons so many non NY'ers are members of the NYCDC(notice the first C) is someone backdoored them as a favor to someone else and the BA's wanted more money to control/steal so they signed up guys from all over creation. It began more than 30 yrs ago, but that doesn't make it less wrong. Instead of signing guys to their home locals and attacking non union all over the tristate area you now have guys trying to crowd up to the water trough that gets increasingly more empty. Its just not sustainable this way. The UBC needs to recognize this and require all new apprentices to live within the jurisdiction. Members who live within a given jurisdiction should go to work before those who live outside of the jurisdiction. No society has ever survived that allowed outsiders to profit while denying its own citizens. And we the UBC, are a society and the jurisdiction is our property. Now, who do we allow to use our property for their own gain? Our own or those from elsewhere? Thats a question for others to answer. Take Care
It just seems very one sided. I live in Jersey, hold a local card here and work here 98% of the time with the very slight occasion that a company I work for might send me to NYC, or PA or elswhere, so I'm not trying to defend myself here, I'm defending EVERYONE, including you, and NYC workers. It seems like a few of you think there aren't NYC local guys working in Jersey or elsewhere. Of course there is, and plenty of them, does there money they earn come back to OUR state? No. Does anybody mind? For the most part, no, I certaintly don't, and every guy out of town I have come across in NJ has been a perfectly respectable guy and I welcome each and every one.
Take the union out of it for a minute. People with desk jobs have been working in urban areas and living and commuting to suburbs since anyone could remember. Not just NYC, any city. People commute to where their job is. Should you start checking that restaraunts you eat at in the 5 boroughs don't have people from Long Island working there for 10 dollars an hour to make ends meet? Will you stop eating there? What about the subways you ride, you think none of the workers there are commuting to work from outside of the city? Is their paycheck going to the city? How about when I'm driving to work on route 80 and there is more PA license plates then NJ, is there paycheck going to NJ? No. But they choose to live there and commute here, who fucking cares. It's always been this way and always worked just fine, we just happen to be in a recession so everybody suddenly is up in arms. The arguement is endless.
Union brothers and sisters are losing homes everywhere, not just your city my friend. It's not a result of whether people live and work in their local or not. It's a result of the economy, and non-union construction companies taking over. Non-union companies taking over is a result of, not high labor union costs, but high labor union costs to members who don't produce the amount of work that they should and use to. The big picture is how to make more work, get more educated and skilled hard workers to gain more strength in the union, it certainly is not going to get anybody anywhere to be mad at your fellow brothers and sisters, no matter where they live, because no matter where they live they ARE still your brothers and sisters. I mean at this point were essentially fighting against EACH other and this can't be good for the future.
We're all one, a union, lets take that back instead of bickering. It's beginning to feel like kindergarten again.
"It's a result of the economy, and non-union construction companies taking over. Non-union companies taking over is a result of, not high labor union costs, but high labor union costs to members who don't produce the amount of work that they should and use to. The big picture is how to make more work, get more educated and skilled hard workers to gain more strength in the union,"
Jason - try again kid. This is the same old tired argument that the Corporations have used for well over 100-years, and quite frankly - it's a bunch of bullshit.
Study history my friend. Union Productivity has done nothing but go up. Our wages reflect what it costs to live & work in the City as well as the training, higher productivity and quality and the safety record as well. Unions built NYC in case you don't know it!
The average UBC Carpenter in the NYCDCC worked 1,150 Man-Hours during the last fiscal year. Multiply that by a base wage of $43 dollars an hour and it is hardly excessive by any stretch of the imagination. This is the exact argument that Doug and the overpaid hacks at BTEA & Wall & Ceiling want you to believe and then you take it hook, line & sinker and run off and spout it as fact. You need to go to the LTC and study up on Labor law and history, you may just learn something.
Their goal 100+ years ago and today is to always exploit the next wave or immigrant class coming to work in the city, for the cheapest dollar value they can get away with paying.. with no benefits of course.
This is the classic divide and conquer strategy they have always used, so they can get away with using 1099's, cash workers, illegal aliens and under-employed Union Guys who are willing to work for them and betray their fellow union brothers and sisters. Who the hell do you think is actually running their jobs - but Union Men with Union Books.
NYCDCC is an exclusive Hiring Hall and the members have a vested property right in both living and working in the geographical jurisdiction of the NYC District Council, as it is a source of wealth, for them, over & above all others....which includes out of state "travelers".
I didn't mean we are overpaid or have high costs by any means. I think if anything, for the risks we take and long term health effects were exposed to we deserve even more. My point was I see everyday, workers that don't put in the work they should and use too. Apprentices are almost always never taught anything anymore on the job, they are used for cheap labor and by the time the 4 or 5 years of apprenticeship is over they learned nothing except how to unload sheetrock and insulate a wall. If they were more skilled by being taught on the job the way they use to be, the more productive, and safety conscience they would be equaling more money made by union contractors equaling more union contractors staying in business equaling a better reputation than the one we have.