MDF & COOKING FISH

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MDF & COOKING FISH

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Just looking over the Mount Sinai handout; and not intending to minimize the risks to us a carpenters, I noticed that the risks from Formaldehyde levels from cooking fish indoors could be more dangerous (approximately 38 times) than sawing and sanding MDF in a ventilated dust chamber, approximately seven times the OSHA worker exposure limit, and approximately fifty three times the level to cause symptoms in sensitive individuals.
I am lead to, at least, two questions:
1. Considering the dual exposure, is it safe for a carpenter’s family to also cook fish?
2. Do we have a duty to worn the workers in fast food fish restaurants that they have a higher risk then we do?
And the obvious conclusion: Never cook MDF.
Ah, the moral dilemmas of statistics…      
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

nosebleed
I really do not find MDF to be something to joke about, I do not get nose bleeds and spend my nights hacking and coughing after cooking fish. The next time I am cutting MDF in a ventilated chamber will be the first time,  lucky if I get a shop vac.
And why we use this crap is beyond me, sure it looks fine when installed, but the first time that it sees a damp mop or rag it looks like crap. Bad enough that I am being poisoned installing this shit but it seems even worse somehow that the only guarantee is that it will be in a dumpster in five years.
joe
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

joe
notice there seems to be no mention of the formaldehyde in carpet, which sometimes comes in and gets installed still damp after being "treated" despite the manufacturers installation recommendations, ie; lay it out in well ventilated area one day, install it the next?  Seems as if those who are trying to protect us are picking their fights carefully. Why not fight to protect all of us? The F in carpet while disproportionately affecting floorlayers ultimately affects everyone on the job.
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

Ethics
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

Bill Walsh
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This may be a joke to you but others take it seriously. MDF is bad for anyone who is exposed to it. Lukemea, nasal cancer and now potential risks to a womans reproductive systems. I don't know where you get your information but were not cooking fish here. There is an updated Carpenters MDF Fact Sheet being prepared and will be available soon. Contact Bill Walsh 646-247-4380 Royyal@aol.com if want to be included in upcoming seminars with the Fraternal Order of Woodworkers and the Job Steward Alliance.
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

Bill Walsh
Q: What does MDF stand for?
A: Medium Density Fiberboard.

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Q: What is MDF?
A: MDF belongs to the hardboard family of products which are made from wood fibers glued under heat and pressure. Medium Density Fiberboard typically has densities between 33 and 50 pounds per cubic feet while High Density Fiberboard (HDF) ranges between 50 and 80 pounds per cubic feet. Hardboard was first produced in 1924 by W. H. Mason, founder of Masonite Corp. The term Masonite is therefore often used to denote hardboard products, especially HDF.
Physical and dimensional tolerances for MDF are specified in ANSI A208.2-1986

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Q: What properties does MDF exhibit?
A: MDF has many qualities that make it an ideal replacement for plywood or particle board. It is dense, flat, stiff, has no knots and is easily machined. Its fine particles provide dimensional stability without a predominant "grain" (as is the case with lumber). Unlike most plywoods, MDF contains no voids, and will deliver sharp edges with no tearout. MDF is very well damped acoustically thus making it an ideal material for speaker enclosures.
Below are some typical values for the modulus of elasticity (in million pounds per square inch) and density (in pounds per cubic feet) for MDF, Oak, Pine and Fir Plywood
MDF - 0.53, 48
Oak - 1.55, 38
Pine - 1.3, 29
Fir plywood - 1.2. 33
The modulus of elasticity (MOE), also called Young's modulus, is the ratio of stress to strain, where stress is the force per unit area placed on the item and strain is the deformation caused by the stress. The MOE is therefore a measure of stiffness.

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Q: What does MDF look like?
A: Here is an image of a birch veneered MDF board on top and for contrast an image of veneered particle board below. Notice the much larger and obvious particles.
This is an image of MDF and particle board

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Q: Are there any drawbacks to using MDF?
A: While MDF has been in use for almost 30 years, it is only now becoming available to the general public. Finding MDF may end up being the single toughest part of using it. As its density implies, MDF is very heavy and thus potentially difficult to handle. See the safety issues below.

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Q: What are the safety issues to consider when working with MDF?
A: MDF is typically made with urea-formaldehyde resin totalling 9% by weight. While most people will not be affected by this, people sensitive to formaldehyde emissions should consider low formaldehyde or formaldehyde-free MDF, or consider methods of controlling these emisions through proper finishing. Finishes that work best at controlling formaldehyde emissions are solid add-on surfaces such as high pressure laminates, vinyl covering, and finished wood veneers. Less effective at controlling emissions are simple seal coats, oil and latext paints, danish oil, and wax. Plum Creek makes low-formaldehyde MDF, while Medite II and Medex from Medite Corp. are formaldehyde-free MDF.
Dust is another MDF hazard. The large amount of dust released when working MDF makes proper respiratory and eye protection mandatory. At a minimum use a dust mask. A respirator is preferable. Shop dust collection (or even a ShopVac) would greatly help the removal of dust from not only the air but also the working surfaces, making them easier to see. Goggles should always be worn while using tools.

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Q: Is all MDF the same?
A: No. MDF from different sources will vary in texture, density, color, etc.

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Q: How is MDF sold?
A: MDF is manufactured in sheets up to 8ft x 25ft. Typical consumer level sheets are 4x8 or 5x8 and 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch and 1 inch in thickness. Thicknesses can also be metric - an important consideration when considering the use of English system tools (such as router bits). MDF is also available with a variety of veneers and laminates pre-applied, which may affect its actual thickness.

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Q: What about MDO, particle board, hardboard, void-free plywood?
A: Medium Density Overlay and High Density Overlay are plywood products with a resin impregnated paper coating. They are often used for exterior painted surfaces. These are not fiber based products.
Likewise, particle board is not fiber based; it is a solid wood composite product. Along with flakeboard and other engineered lumbers, composite products are made from wood flakes, chips, splinters, etc., formed into layers and held together by resin glues and heated under pressure. Being layered and consisting of larger chunks, particle board does not have the uniform texture of MDF.
While MDF is a hardboard, the term hardboard is often used to refer to 1/8 or 1/4 inch thick HDF, usually containing a screen pattern on one surface. As previously mentioned, this is commonly referred to as Masonite.
Plywood is made from an odd number of lumber plies, each layer having a grain direction at right angles to the previous layer. This arrangement provides a dimensionally stable product. Void-free plywood uses plies with supposedly no holes, thus the completed plywood has in theory no voids. Baltic birch plywood is often sold as void-free plywood though some users have encountered small voids in these products. Be sure to ask specifically for void-free plywood if this is what you are looking for.
 

joe
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

joe
Bill, any idea why Mt Sinai and the industry in general,  including those ostensibly trying to protect us, ignore the F risk from the carpet our members are installing EVERY day?
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Outgassing

J. S. A. Stewards
If 'Joe' attended the JSA meetings he'd have heard about carpet related product out gassing. He missed it. We're mostly carpenters, not floor covering mechanics. We emphasize materials relevant to our crafts. If 'Joe' is a floor steward, he should join, come down, a represent his craft brothers and sisters. At a future meeting, if there's interest we may talk about solvents, cleaners, welding gasses, and the millwrights.  
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

Jimmy5star
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You funny!
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

30 year man
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   When was the last time anyone working in the field was working in a ventilated dust chamber? Most jobs aren't even properly ventilated you moron. Most carpenters die of lung related diseases and cancers due to the long term exposures to hazardous chemicals found in building materials. That is one of the reasons we have over 2 Billion in our pension fund. It will be the assholes working for the council that collect the most and the longest as they aren't  exposed to anything but hemorrhoids from sitting on their useless asses all day. Cooking fish is just another council hack down playing the dangers we face on a daily basis, who has a moutn like a big mouth bass so he can take McCarron balls and all.  
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

Kevin656
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It was really not my cup of tea to make fried fish or masala fish. But I am feeling so proud to say that with help of useful cooking tips I got from my online friend, I made them. Really yummy!! Now my husband ask me every week to cook masala fish for him.
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

hammer
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Boost your immune system with fresh organic vegetables, berries and some fruits. Avoid all non-organic and GMO vegetables and fruits as their, pesticides, fungicides, and genetic toxins will destroy your gut microbiome, which will eliminate your ability to digest and process the food eaten, thereby making it impossible to extract any vitamins ,minerals, antioxidents, which will keep you healthy and your immune system working to prevent illness and cancer. Avoid all vaccines which contain toxins which have formaldehyde and other cancer causing toxic ingredients. Eliminate all processed foods from your diet. Eliminate all sugar, processed sugar and sugar replacements, which stimulate and excellerate cancer growth and proliferation. Eliminate all flour, cereal and baked goods, as after digestion these processed foods are quickly metabolized into sugar,promoting cancer growth in your body.Organic Grass fed protein should be limited to 6 to 8 oz. per day. Get  min. of 8 hours sleep. Reduce stress levels using various techniques. Get plenty of sun for the vitamin D and suppliment with D3 if your Hydroxy 25 D levels are lower than 70. Use Intermittent Fasting to re-regulate your metabolism and to Detox properly. Detox daily with a organic green powder consisting of spirolina, chlorella, wheatgrass, (Food Matters Greens) in a glass of water or smoothie. Use Tumeric powder to keep all cellular activity correct, while preventing cancerous cell growth and metastacy. Remember sugar stimulates cancer growth and any amount will suppress your immune system for up to 24 hours. And above all wear a snug fitting N95.
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

steward
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U should take this formeldihiam very serious,It is in the air when woodworkers cut it on job sites.it should be banned.also new laws need to be activated for putting vacuums on the saw dust that comes out of it.it is in the air and everyone is exposed to it.it causes cancer.there arenew mandated coming out to have the air samplles monitored and sampled.we need good help guide lines and new laws and regulations to protecting our men who work in the field exposed to these cartrigens.new ohsa guigelines definetly need to be impleamented to get our contractors and our members educated and what to do to better protect themselves.it is a matter that has to be taken into account fast and impleamented educational couses in the school to help our members and apprentices to be aware of its hazards,etc.good luck to all,and be safe,look out for yourself and look out for your coworkers.in solidarity a good steward who cares.
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

Keon12
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Yes most of restaurants have their secret menus which are not advertised or marketed. In most of cases, the quality is better than advertised menu. I think mcdonalds secret menu is one on top of the list. I prefer it over their regular items.
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Re: MDF & COOKING FISH

Bill Walsh