Interior systems and contracts

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
56 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Interior systems and contracts

bill lebo
In McCarron's letter to Drapper he says," interior systems as defined by the drywall industry". What about acoustical ceilings, wood work, store front, glass partions, furniture, all the different types of flooring, etc.? Are these all part of interior systems or not? I got a bad feeling when they started to name a local by interior or exterior. Why would you do that? Is it because they want to start breaking up the skills of a carpenter into specialties? Thats what I see. I for one am a carpenter,I can do drywall, framing of all kinds, wood work, ceilings of all kinds, concrete form work of all kinds, layout, well you get my drift. CARPENTER, not drywaller, or any of the sub-categories therein, I joined a CARPENTER UNION, NOT A DRYWALL union.
This apparent break down of our trade skills, to me, can only mean one thing, a break down of our pay rates. That's just what I see. I can almost hear the rationale... In order to better compete with the non-union drywallers we must lower your rates so that we can regain market share and put more of our members to work blah, blah blah.
For those of you who have been in for 25 years or more you've seen the way the economy effects our trade. It has its highs and lows. This low has been the worst I myself have seen, however, I know it comes back up. Supposedly this year is going to be a little better than last in the private sector and worse in the public sector. Point being, the work will come back and not because of any concessions the UBC makes in our contracts.
Two pay raises ago we were told our raises were frozen because the contractors said they would be able to put more members to work if they would forego the raise. A few months later we got the raise because, according to the supervisor, there was no increase of members being put to work. Is that bargaining in bad faith? Where did that money go? I didn't get any retroactive pay, did you? I guess the contractors got over on us that time. I thought when a contrator bid on a job they took the raises into consideration when they put in the bid. So I guess the contrators made a little more than they would have if we had got the raise that was in our contract, in our "collectively bargained contract".
Now, once again we are told we will not be getting our January raise because the contractors will be able to put more members to work if we forego our raise.... Am I missing something here? As far as I'm Concerned our contract has been broken, not once but twice. If you or I break the contract we're subject to charges being filed against us, possible expulsion, and possibly other legal ramifications.
The UBC is in negotiations with our various contractors for our next contracts.
Now at 157's meeting Frank Spencer told the members present that we would not be getting any pay cuts. Do you believe him?
At Local 45's meeting I made a motion that was seconded and carried to send a letter to the supervisor that our members demand to review the contracts and ratify them. I bet that letter went right in the rectangular file.
Brothers and sisters, we seriously need to wake up. This has the potential of setting us back a long, long way. I didn't see the electricians, or the operating engineers giving up thier raises. Why is the hardest working entity on any construction job giving up wages? Does anyone know if members of any union have ever gone on strike against thier own union? What if every member of our union were to hold back thier union dues until we got what we asked for? Just a thought. Maybe its as simple as motioning the court for an injunction on any contract negotiations until such time as we have an elected by the membership executive body at the coucil because the UBC is negotiating in bad faith. I don't know. Have to think about that.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

listman
The fact Forde & co.played this "breakdown" for any purpose says enough to me. 16.5 years of this implemented by & for criminals.

Its like a bad surgeon whio never got caught & they just keep letting him cut people open yet his waiting room is full ?

Brothers and sisters, we seriously need to wake up. Why is the hardest working entity on any construction job giving up wages?

Profound Mr. Lebo, exactly my sentiment


 Maybe its as simple as motioning the court for an injunction on any contract negotiations until such time as we have an elected by the membership executive body at the coucil because the UBC is negotiating in bad faith.

If we act as one this will happen !
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

anon
Banned User
This post was updated on .
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

bill lebo
You're correct but you  gotta see if the bad faith issue can stick
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

anon
Banned User
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by bill lebo
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by anon
 "and it boils down to them being allowed to do anything as long as it is in our constitution"

Sorry but not true.More pure BS . McCarron is not god and the UBC Constitution DOES NOT supersede the law.Did Kevin Price not just prove that or is it something you just refuse to accept. Did the Federal Judge not just tell the UBC to stick the constitution up their ass as in the Price case.
   Challenging the Constitution,its legitimacy of the legality of its Sections it is the way to defeat McCarron and his ass clowns. You keep trying to steer members away from the path to defeat McCarron by declaring the Constitution the untouchable holy grail. You can wipe your ass with the UBC Constitution. The sooner McCarrons rights under 6a and other Sections are defeated in Federal court the sooner the UBC facade unravels. You go ahead and keep steering members to actions that assure a victory for the UBC. The rest of us are not fooled.

  I would also like you to prove the AUD has promised you, of all people, to present anything to a judge as you keep posting. I will give you a day and then call Herman myself and post his reply.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

listman
In reply to this post by bill lebo
"the UBC is negotiating in bad faith"

More like criminalistic faith !

Lets get an action started, first order of business, ------ INJUNCTION

TIC,TIC,TIC..............................................

WE'RE RUNNING SHORT ON TIME !!!!!!

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

anon
Banned User
This post was updated on .
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

bill lebo
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
I'm not familar with Kevin Price or his suit can you post it I'd like to check it out.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

anon
Banned User
This post was updated on .
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

bill lebo
In reply to this post by anon
Yep Iwoiuld get signatures but it's been my experience that petitions do little to influence the court, they are usually only swayed by legal precidence.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

bill lebo
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
Okay I just read the story about Kevin Price. It has nothing at all to do with 6a or McCarrons power to dissolve locals or place them under trusteeship. I myself in 1996 was brought on charges for speaking against McCarron and the UBCs tactics Causing dissention, violating the obligation and improper harassment of a union member. I was found guilty by the UBCs appointed kangeroo court and fined $1500.00. I appealed to the International, citied my right to dissent under the LMRDA, my right to freedom of speech under the US constitution  and wrote that I'd see them in court. The international over turned the ruling without court. They couldn' t possibly win that. Don't mean to lessen the brothers victory, I think its awesome he stood his ground, but that was an easy win, no court in this land would have would have done any less.
Ted
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

Ted
In reply to this post by anon
NLRA - Sec. 7. ยง 157. Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain from any or all such activities except to the extent that such right may be affected by an agreement requiring membership in a labor organization as a condition of employment as authorized in section 8(a)(3) section 158(a)(3) of this title.

ANON  - Finally it appears...a chink in your armour wherein you admit in your own words to what has always been inherent in the NLRA Sect. 7 right(s) of the rank & file...

NLRA Sect 7 - "to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing".

Anon - your words - "you are entitled to have your contracts negotiated by persons chosen by you"....

This ain't to pick you apart either. We've all bitch slapped one another on occasion & the Int'l leadership loves that shit...divide & conquer - as we get distracted from the real issues at hand.

Congress wrote this in plain & clear langauge, for the every-man, so every one would understand it w/o being a lawyer.

Section 7'S excerpt above = a vote. Voting for the rep's who do the collective bargaining for the group as a whole prior to Contract Negotiations is part & parcel tot that Act - period....no more, no less.

Ratifications of Contracts wherein members had no input or say into which representative's did the collective bargaining amount to nothing more than a fait accompli, legally speaking & are therefore illegal on their face. Once people understand that, and most do - the rest is even easier & it obviously equates to a vote for the office holders vs. "appointment by a Supreme Dictator" whether that be Doug McCarron on one of his 38 EST's.

ALSO: NOWHERE in the NLRA does it state the term/phrase "Representative Democracy" as McCarron  & his attorney's have used it before Congress to dissuade them & the varying Courts to see things his way.

We have two cases waiting to be overturned, one in Harrington v. Chao, which to date has been tried in but one Circuit Court, thus, we need a differing opinion in another Circuit Court to make it, the controvesey ripe for resolution...i.e via an Appeals Court & then perhaps upon a challenge by Doug & his ilk, the Supreme Court.

The same holds true for UBC Local 43 & Lebovitz, re: Mobility & the UBC Constitution & Bylaws being ruled facially unlawful. (Put the Constitution, Bylaws & NLRA beside each other line for line & it's readily apparent that the UBC is violating every aspect of the Law as written & amended)

In short, 2-cases, 3 major points of LAW, all of which directly conflict with the NLRA as written & subsequently amended.

I think what is unique is that the formation of the Interior Systems Locals wherein "full mobility" is being granted to the newly forced in members, it cements those 3-issues together & the AUD, the AGC (WHOM WE FUND VIA DEDUCTIONS) ought to jump all over these issues.

What I have seen over the course of the last 14 months is this - This site has a ton of sharp people writing in, commenting & well read...carpenters doing countless hours of research, law review etc. Once we all get past the venting etc , we gotta move foward, vett the top 20 ideas of exactly what we are after to the Top 5 & pursue those through the appropriate lawsuit.

Every aspect of the UBC as it is now run, as the Constitution is now written, as the varying individual Council bylaws are now written (95% the same w/ minor tweaking) clearly indicate what the dissenting Justice in Choa wrote - when the Council takes on so many aspects of the Local labor organization & controls everything - it must be considered the local (not a direct quote, late, simply making a point)....as such is now the case, legally we are entitled to a vote via secret ballot for all elected officers as well as a Vote for the EST.

These 2-cases, those 2-core issues are what lies at the Heart of putting the brother back into the "brotherhood". If anything, past McCarrons divide & conquer strategies, he has proved one thing, take away the members right to vote & he can & shall control everything.

Past these base issues, the next major one is: The CBA's vs. the FUND(S) TRUST AGREEMENTS & which one is legally Controlling & Binding upon the rank & file UBC Brothers & Sisters. From a legal point of view, as the UBC is now being run, the FUNDS ATTORNEYS think that their behind the scenes fund agreements control everything & that too is in direct contravention to the NLRA and it must be challenged.

McCarron is not after the CBA's, UBC Constitutional crap or Council or Local Bylaw crap - those are petty distractions to throw the members off so he & his corrupt buddies can get after the meat & potatoes - which is & remains the Monies of the 38 Regional Councils. How much did each Council lose? How much of those losses were attributable to actual market losses verses Illegal Investments made in violation of ERISA/EBSA reg's & laws? How many billions did they walk away with, which is now in offshore accounts?

You wanna pull a Brinks job, you don't rob a 7-11. That is where the game is...follow the money, not the petty bullshit. That is also where you take him down via criminal RICO charges.

The NLRB Board & the US Sup Ct makeup are now changing toward a pro-labor stance. Whatever issues the AUD ultimatley takes up - they need to take these into consideration & all of us have to focus more on what we have in common than any personal differences.

Start with 20 issues, pare it down to 10 & then the top 5 causes of action worth pursuing in District Court & Federal Court. Seperate the distinct Local issues from the more Global UBC issues which effect members nationwide. Time we were all proactive on the national ones & that requires we first build a consensus & then pursue it.

Maybe John, who runs this site in concert with AUD etc can start an escrow account for contributions for this effort tied to a paypal account or some other way to accept donations from members around the country.

Another idea would perhaps be to teach other UBC brothers how to get sites up & running similar to this 157blogspot site..not my thing to set up, but I could learn how to run one & get the word out, get more people involved.


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

im watching
In reply to this post by bill lebo
BILL I AM A CARPENTER LIKE YOURSELF WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS STOP PAYING OUR DUES AND LET THE INTERNATIONAL NOW WHO IS IN CHARGE OVER HERE WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER IN THIS SO LETS ACT LIKE A UNION AND STAND HAND TO HAND ALL OF US
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

listman
In reply to this post by Ted
"pursue those through the appropriate lawsuit. "

Absolutley, But isn't it clear setting up a national account for donations will fall outside the lead time prior to McCarron getting his money grubbing mits on more Lcls, Councils & Trades.

I realize this can be reversed with injunctions but short of an ex SCOTUS Judge, of which there are none available, I haven't seen any other firms or esq's ready to step up, something I've got buku experience with.
Cold calling bothLabor & employment lawyers, referrals, $$$$$, AUD ACLU ( yes there is a constitutional aspect to what we face ) NADA, SQUAT..................Still waiting for the more fundamental start, The Brotherhood to come together.

Its poignantly apparent we are enough members nationwide. Of course there is an attorney somewhere who would take this case but for the fact we're not walking in with a check made out for 200k.

With respect to postings which carry yours & the others views as to where the UBC is headed. The formation of area groups on the same plane has taken, I would say some 8 years only to get as far as we are now.  Someone needs to produce a viral video for this express purpose.  Though there is an extremely high # of members not online I ask how would this accomplish the end goal ?  I don't have all the answers but I am well suited to take on many of these challenges. Those who know the personal effort & sacrifice I have committed to can attest to that.


We've got the groups & individuals not to mention the balls, and like you I believe we have the law on our side----------------- Lets get this show on the road already.


And don't say, -  Post your real name that'd be a start.

When & If it appears likely that yours, mine and all other viewpoints on thes subject matter of coming together for this cause seem to producing results, ------------- listman will come out.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

listman
In reply to this post by Ted
NLRA -
When members are requesting another brother to attend meetings @ the council for purposes of moral support, not involment in that meeting,they are flat out denied.

Mutual aid & protection my ass !
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

John Musumeci
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ted
Ted, I will call the AUD today and discuss the points you raise. As you pointed out NLRA Sect 7 says - "to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing."

I want to find out if we can start a petition and file an injunction in Federal Court with Judge Bermen ordering Spencer to stop bargaining for us. Why should the rank and file live with a 5-year contract that Spencer negotiates when the supervision will be over and he will be outta here.

Also I like your idea and will look into it to, "set up in concert with AUD etc, and start an escrow account for contributions for this effort tied to a paypal account or some other way to accept donations from members around the country."


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by bill lebo
Anon. I have already had a talk with Hermann about you. Second. Post the proof that the AUD has promised you to take anything to court or shut up. its funny how you post here as if you and the AUD are best of buddies and you and Hermann have been fighting together for years. Your full of shit

Bill Lebo. You missed the point of the Kevin Price case. It was not  the content of the case but the action of the court. Perhaps you should call Kevin himself and thank him for having the balls to tell the UBC to f.. off.Anon our council rat would have us ignore the challenges to the constitution were the fight needs to be waged. He claims they are the holy grail. Cannot be touched. Supersede the world. The significance of the Price case is that a Federal Judge proved they are not. A federal court reached into the UBC and told them they were not bringing anybody up on charges no matter what their byalws said proving you can wipe you ass with it. It is not untouchable. That is the point of the Price case.

  McCarron keeps using 6a to violate our rights and destroy the UBC. It needs to be challenged in federal Court. Unlike Anon we have worked with the AUD. We have talked to Herman Benson and we have talked with Attorneys. Bottom line is we WILL get our temp injunction. The long term outcome of our case is questionable. Why. Not because the UBC Constitution is the holy grail not to be challenged but because the UBC has deeper pockets than us all
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by John Musumeci
"Also I like your idea and will look into it to, "set up in concert with AUD etc, and start an escrow account for contributions for this effort tied to a paypal account or some other way to accept donations from members around the country."

Good idea as long as the AUD is willing to commit themselves to our fight. Anyone who contributes will expect no less. Victory against McCarron will benefit all organized labor. Lest us not forget the UBC enemy's as a source of funding. AFL-CIO and the IBEW to start. Someone call Kevin Price and asked who paid for his attorney

In regards to brotherhood.It is nice to all work together and stop the infighting.We cannot however work for nothing by exposing all our cards to UBC and Council rats.The majority of us here have a common cause. At least one of us do not. We cannot forget that since he got here Anon has done nothing but support the UBC and work to attack anybody on this site who has spoken out against the UBC or Council. I for one do forgive or forget nor do I believe his sudden support for the rank and file. He has worked diligently to derail any efforts to fight the UBC. Showing this rat your cards is the same as giving them to the UBC. I dont care how much he yelled at Franky
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Interior systems and contracts

bill lebo
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
No brother I didn't miss the point it was clearly a freedom of speech case. I'm affraid you missed my point.
123