Democracy

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Democracy

Wayne Harley
Dear Brothers and Sisters, over the last couple of years I have done a lot of research about our organization. I would like everyone to know that my intentions are to help make us a stronger Union. To accomplish this we all need to educate ourselves about how a union works. The UBC like many other unions have lost there basic democratic rights to vote directly for their business managers and to ratify contracts.  “All Business Agents should be elected by the Membership of the Local union not appointed.”   Along with this we should also have the right to vote on our contracts. This battle has been fought for many years local by local in New York and New England. I would like our Rank and File to join together and unite as one to restore democracy in our once great organization. If we do this our voice will become strong and we will restore our basic rights. Join us in this fight I know this has been going on for many years but not at a National level. Together we the dues paying rank and file will win. Please look at our web site and join.   http://unioncarpentersfordemocracy.webs.com/apps/members/   Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Sincerely
Wayne Harley
Member LU 1765
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Re: Democracy

anon
I have been to your website, I suppose that anyone reading any of the forums regarding the carpenters union is going to eventually go there since you post a link to your website repeatedly on all the sites.
It does not appear to change at all with the same posts being all that is ever there.
 What  I have failed to see is any mention of the means by which you intend to enact any
of these changes you  wish to see implemented. Your claim of having spent years researching democracy would not seem to have given you any ideas on how to correct the situation.  
I personally am tired of reading a list of what is wrong with this union with no answers being offered as to how to correct these issues.
The UBC is not going to alter the current system, even if they were to enact any changes, they would be minimal and only to the extent of curtailing other member rights.
I see no purpose in seeking only contract ratification or direct elections to  select  positions within the council.
I see no purpose in trying to make a national issue out of a local problem. The problems listed on your website are local problems.  
The UBC is a national problem, but if stripped of his omnipotent EST’s,  the UBC would be curtailed. McCarron simply would not be able to operate without the backing of the current system of member exclusion.    
The simple fact is that all any council has to do is to make their council a local, which is what they are in reality, to correct the current situation. The current powerless locals should be dissolved as they are only powerless money pits.
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Re: Democracy

tester
In reply to this post by Wayne Harley
"Animal Farm"

 Doug's Top  Favorite Movie ?

http://goo.gl/LEuV
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Re: Democracy

Wayne Harley
In reply to this post by anon
Dear Anon,
Thank you for taking the time to write us and share your views. We welcome all opinions and as promised we have posted your letter and this is our response. The tone of your letter and many of your comments indicates to me you may be an employee of the staff of some Regional Council or maybe the UBC Regional Office. This is why I say this.
1.  You accept the fact that the UBC is not going to change its course, no matter what the members say, or how many members say it.
2.  You feel if any changes that may take affect it will be to further curtail our rights as members.
3.  Your feel contract ratification by members, serves no purpose in the members ability to have a voice in their working conditions, as guaranteed employees in our sec. 7 rights of the NLRA.
4.  You feel that direct elections of the Representatives that negotiate our wages and conditions of employment as guaranteed us in the NLRA, are of no purpose.
5.  You try to pass these issues off as Local issues, where if you surfed the web as much as you say, or if you looked at our members, you would know, this issue is a National issue.
6.  You don't realize the Douglas McCarron dictating policy to his , as you call them, omnipotent EST's and them dictating policy to the membership is the definition of an "Autocratic Hierarchy", not a democratic organization.
7.  The scariest thing you stated, is that the Local is a powerless money pit, and that they should be dissolved. That the business of the Locals should be left to the Regional Council. To do this only would only further erode our membership and deteriorate the small portion of the market organized labor represents in our state. As Union Carpenters, we are bound by constitution do strive to represent a larger portion of our trades market. No carpenter that would turn to a union for representation would come to a union with only a single Regional Council, used only as a automated referral system for the member. Where's the representation if there is no Local Union Hall for the individual members to discuss their conditions of employment and their representing agents. To believe that working people are that stupid is only a pipe dream of the ABC. For us, as members of the UBC, to sit passively and allow this to happen to our union does not compliment us as American Union Workers.
We apologize for our web-site not changing the articles often enough. Not all of our articles change on a weekly basis or bi-weekly basis, that's for sure. We do try to rotate them out and leave others we feel are of more importance longer. Because of the tremendous increase in hits on our web-site, we will put more focus on creating fresh reading material, more often.    
"Members for Democracy" is not just a web-site to us. In The Florida Regional Council we are a second party. "Members for Democracy" is another view of what is healthy for our union. We have a second opinion for the best way to grow as a union and how to provide a more secure future for our families. Because of this, and because Florida's low membership, does not provide us a large staff (we are all volunteer), we are stretched pretty thin. We take as much of the material as we can afford to print from our web-site an publish it in a newsletter format. We take the newsletters and business cards listing our e-mail and web-site, and travel to the other locals in our state to hand them out to our Brothers and Sisters and to engage conversation. We feel if we are asking other UBC members around the country to do this, we need to be giving it all we have at home.
I want to address your comments about being tired of hearing what is wrong with our union and come up with ideas as how to fix things. First we have to know what's wrong to be able to fix it, and that's why we encourage open conversation about the problems our members see. To work toward fixing things, we have to start with what little democratic process we have left, and use it to our advantage. Here's five small steps we can all start with.
1.   We, the members, have only one avenue left to us, of expressing any meaningful voice in our conditions of employment, or the internal business of our union, that's our elected delegates to the Regional Councils. We need to be as intelligent as possible about who we put in these positions and it's our responsibility to find a way to free these positions from any of the conflict of interest that are presently causing undue influence on their voting habits. Following is an example of one we are presently trying to iron out for a petition. Review what problems you may see in your council that we haven't  covered and amend this to fit the needs of your council (please forward us any changes, we would like to take them into consideration for ours).  
 Florida Carpenters Regional Council
Representation By Delegate Resolution
"Sample, For Review And Discussion By Members"

        As members of a trade union, we find that in our interest and in the interest of the generations that follow us, it continues to be our responsibility to protect the members right to organize our trade, to be involved in the bargaining process of our employment contracts, to be able to choose our representatives through an election process, to be informed of and have a voice in the internal business of our union and to be actively involved in our concerted activities. In order to protect these rights and to maintain an atmosphere free of "conflict of interest" for our delegates at our Regional Council, We The Members hereby resolve that:
1. All business requiring a vote by the Regional Council Delegates shall be provided, in detail, to the members, through a Regional Council Newsletter mail-out, no less than 30 days prior to the Regional Council vote. This shall provide time for discussion and debate by the locals members and a chance for the delegates to hear the feelings and will of the members prior to the vote. No Regional Council issue shall be voted on unless it has been included in said mail-out.
2. To be eligible to run for a delegate position, a member must have been a member of the U.B.C. for no less than 2 years, a member of the local for no less than 1 year, and have been in good standing for at least 30 days prior to nomination.
3. To avoid any conflict of interest between the membership and our employers, no member that is employed as a superintendent or any higher management position, shall be eligible to serve as a Delegate/Alternate-Delegate.
4. To avoid any conflict of interest between the membership and the Regional Council staff, no member that is employed to any staff position or as a full time instructor shall be eligible to serve as a Delegate/Alternate-Delegate.
5. All Delegates/Alternate-Delegates to the Regional Council are required to attend all monthly business meetings of the Local they represent. If a Delegate/Alternate-Delegate misses two local business meetings in one year (not to include those excused for illness or family emergency, working shall not be considered an excuse), that local shall immediately call a special-call meeting for the purpose of nominating and electing a replacement for this Delegate/ Alternate-Delegate.
6. All Delegates/Alternate-Delegates are required to attend all Regional Council meetings. If a delegate misses 2 Regional Council meetings in his/her election period (not to include those excused for illness or family emergency), that local shall immediately call a special-call meeting for the purpose of nominating and electing a replacement for this Delegate/Alternate-Delegate.
7. If a Delegate/Alternate-Delegate to the Regional Council is unable to attend the locals monthly business meeting, they are required to notify the president of their Local in advance. The recording secretary or the president shall provide the delegate with a detailed report of the business discussed.
8. If a Delegate/Alternate-Delegate shall have an unexcused absence for a monthly local business meeting, that involves discussion of business for the upcoming Regional Council Meeting (this shall occur only when there is not time for a special-call meeting) the president shall appoint a temporary replacement Delegate/Alternate Delegate to the next Regional Council meeting to represent the memberships will.
9. If for any reason a Delegate/Alternate-Delegate is unable to attend a Regional Council meeting, they are required to inform the president and the president shall appoint a qualified replacement that was in attendance at the previous monthly local business meeting. This shall assure that the members of each locals shall have the opportunity to express their will and opinions.
10. All votes at the Regional Council shall be by "Roll Call Vote" as described by Roberts Rules of Order, only.
11. Voting records of all Delegates of each local shall be posted on that locals bulletin board and shall remain posted for the delegates full term or one year whichever is longer.


Dear member, review this and contact us by e-mailing membersfordemocracy@gmail.com then visit our web-site
at http://unioncarpentersfordemocracy.webs.com/ to see your posting
and to engage in other discussions.

2.  Create a meaningful Volunteer Organizing Committee in your Locals and organize your local contractors using majority status contracts. Refuse to settle for Sec. 8 pre-hire agreements.
     a.  In your majority status contracts, insist on employee contract negotiation committee's and membership-employee ratification on all succeeding contracts.
     b.  Never allow a no-strike clause in your majority status contracts.
     c.  Whenever and wherever possible convert your sec. 8(f) pre-hire agreements to sec. 9 majority status contracts (there are procedures for this).
* Doing this will put the members voice back into our conditions of employment and the limit the staffs to suggestions and advising as intended.
3.   If you don't have a democratic organization in your union yet, start one, and get your people into delegate and executive committee positions. Be active, be creative and make your party grow.
4.   Solidarity is vital to the health of any union and vital to its success in affecting your communities market share, create a strong Fraternal Committee in your Local, make sure you have fraternal events and always make Labor Day the grandest of all.
5.   We can do a lot to bring the vital changes necessary for bringing democracy back to the membership of our own union, but we also need supplementary legislation that can afford members of labor organizations, safeguards to their rights and interests and to prevent anything like this happening to our union again. To do this, we need an AFL-CIO type organization, that members of the parties that believe in democracy, in all of our unions can turn to. I feel we have such an organization. The Association for Union Democracy is an organization I believe in. This organization was established to help members of all unions. They also understand the additional hardships that members of the Building and Construction Trade unions face. I strongly urge anyone that believes in union democracy to look them up and join their organization. We will all benefit from their growth.

Fraternally Yours
Members For Democracy    
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Re: Democracy

anon
This post was updated on .

I should have started this post by acknowledging your effort in hosting your website. I have edited this post to do so. I appreciate your effort and am sorry if I am too critical sometimes,


Thank you for the detailed reply
Much of your petition seems to deal with the delegates to your council.  I do not see the purpose in all those regulations to try and make it so that the delegates will represent the views of the members.
It just seems so much more effective to simply move away from that system and go with direct member participation on the issues.
1. I accept the fact that the UBC will not change its course because this has been their practice to date.
2. Everything done by McCarron to date has been to nullify individual members rights, so yes, I believe that this will continue.
3.I do feel that member ratifying contracts is an important issue, however, I also want more.
4. I feel that direct elections are the only way to go.
5. These issues are a local issue, while they may affect every council, the councils must be dealt with on an individual basis. It would be far too complicated to try and address all the locals and councils together. On the other hand, any victories made by any members of any council will help other members in other councils. It simply has to start on a local level.
6. You lost me on this one.
7. The scary part is that the system you are acusing me of trying to introduce, is actually the system that you are working under. The locals are powerless and cannot effect anyting in your life. They serve no purpose other than to allow for a representatively elected intermediate body known as the council to have complete control.
 What I still fail to see is how you think you can achieve your goals. The UBCJA is not going to suddenly cave in and give members back all the rights that they worked so hard to take from them, I am sorry, but I do not see a petition doing much. I appreciate that you are trying to accomplish something, I simply do not see it being accomplished via petitions.
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Re: Democracy

iamlistman@yahoo.com
Hey anon: You bag of pro Mc hot air.

" It just seems so much more effective to simply move away from that system and go with direct member participation on the issues."  

Where do you come up with the direct member participation part of this. Where does it state this will come about.  And don't say that this is what will happen once there are no locals.

Take the easy way out, Figures !
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Re: Democracy

iamlistman@yahoo.com
In reply to this post by anon
Sounds pro Mccaronm to us.

"The scary part is that the system you are acusing me of trying to introduce, is actually the system that you are working under"


Criminals picked by Mc & Forde hijacked our democratic participation, not that it doesn't work.

 Too many other union applications where locals are important checks & balances on union leadership.
Give him the farm I get it !
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Re: Democracy

iamlistman@yahoo.com
In reply to this post by anon
" What I still fail to see is how you think you can achieve your goals. The UBCJA is not going to suddenly cave in and give members back all the rights that they worked so hard to take from them, I am sorry, but I do not see a petition doing much. I appreciate that you are trying to accomplish something, I simply do not see it being accomplished via petitions."
 

Best thing you could do is stop, - period. This is best exemplified by your comment. Who cares if they'll not cave.

 Real men don't walk away from issues like this. Nor do real men rely on petitions, -They take action.
 Yours alone seems to be that of Mc's - advance man.
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Re: Democracy

anon
 Thank God you got here, what action are you taking? We were all waiting for the all knowing messiah to explain how it should be done.
From your other posts I have figured out that you do not like petitions or having a say in the union. So what are you suggesting?
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Re: Democracy

Richard Dorrough
In reply to this post by anon
Wayne. Well put response but I suggest you ignore this guy. He does not care what you answers are and it was only a matter of time before he attacked you and your site. His mission is to dissuade members,criticize opposition,lie through his teeth (what few i am sure he has left) to cover for Mccarron and Spencer and to get you to waste you time answering his ridiculous posts.Why waste your time.
   The McCarron Council system is a complete failure and must be crushed in its present form. The NYC District Council is not a LOCAL problem it is a national problem.It is a shining example of the corruption of consolidation and you will find similar circumstances in Councils across the country. I cannot believe anyone would support McCarrons plans to further consolidate so he and his Spencers can rob the rank and file easier than they do now and with more gusto.
     
  McCarrons tier system consists of a pack of council rats and thieves extorting the locals unions and stealing their democratic rights and monies so a smaller pack of thieves can rob them. This is not theory but fact as per the example of the Empire and NYC District Councils. The International has stepped in and replaced the Council scum with International scum. The same pack of rats that have been robbing councils and locals across the country are now setting up the fleecing of the Eastern Councils and Locals. The only saving grace for NYC is the US Attorney Office and Review Officer. Its to bad this review Officer supports the rape of the Locals. Perhaps Mr. Walsh should rethink his dissolve the locals policy until he proves he can control the corruption of the Councils. He cannot even stop the head Rat McCarron from telling the RO to go ... imself.
 
  Wayne keep up the good work. A national movement is the answer and must be sorted out. Perhaps we can start by mobilizing to come to each others aid with protests and pickets of UBC entity's and locations. If a Local or rank and file group needs support perhaps we can set times and places to come to each others aid. How about if we set up tents across from MacCarron, Spencers and Glenns house so we can let their neighbors know who and what they are. We can blow the UBC whistles and act like infants similar to UBC organizers. We can have blow up rubber animals and chant rats in the building ,Rats in the house as these morons do.Sorry being a little sarcastic .
   Keep up the work and dont waste you time with council rats on a mission to derail any opposition movement
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Re: Democracy

iamlistman@yahoo.com
In reply to this post by anon
The biggest most monumemntal thing I can suggest right this minute is that you stop condoning the actions of straight up corporate thinking union leader
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Re: Democracy

anon
listman wrote
The biggest most monumemntal thing I can suggest right this minute is that you stop condoning the actions of straight up corporate thinking union leader
and here i was thinking that thinking was not your strong suit.
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Re: Democracy

iamlistman@yahoo.com
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
"  The only saving grace for NYC is the US Attorney Office and Review Officer."


 anon when this is over your going to wish you were a mushroom making 43 & change/hr.
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Re: Democracy

anon
In reply to this post by iamlistman@yahoo.com
Try reading my posts, at least I have something to suggest. What is your plan?
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Re: Democracy

anon
In reply to this post by iamlistman@yahoo.com
listman wrote
Sounds pro Mccaronm to us.

"The scary part is that the system you are acusing me of trying to introduce, is actually the system that you are working under"


Criminals picked by Mc & Forde hijacked our democratic participation, not that it doesn't work.

 Too many other union applications where locals are important checks & balances on union leadership.
Give him the farm I get it !
No it doesn't, which is why i suggest we try something new.
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Re: Democracy

Wayne Harley
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
Thanks Richard,
They will not discourage me, they have ruined my ability to support my family. I have hardley worked in the last 2 years and have no choice but to sell my house. Where does a Union carpenter go to work? I cant get work withUnion contractors because they hire non-union carpenters or illigals. All the union contractors here in Florida do not honor their signatory contracts and the worthless EST wont do anything to help. If you look at what they are doing they are destroying us from within.They opened a new local to do Interior systems last month, $14.00 per hour and no benifits. They will not give anyone a copy of CBA or by-laws. They are hiding something they wony even produce a copy of the locals charter. We are taking leagal action against the council and all involved with the criminal activities going on in Florida. Also I talked to a few Millwrights and their BA is signing contract with companies for scale and no benifits.

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Re: Democracy

iamlistman@yahoo.com
In reply to this post by anon
Get the council back first then we can pull out the list of changes and vote on them like union men.
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Re: Democracy

anon
In reply to this post by Richard Dorrough
Lie through my teeth? This from the guy who seems to be trying to make a career in telling fairytales. Please give an example of where you feel you can correct anything I have said.
I am mystified as to why you keep making posts which support my idea, and then try to say that you do not.
We are getting robbed and screwed at a council level, so this is where I feel members should be in control. You seem to want to control a local, why?
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iamlistman@yahoo.com
In reply to this post by Wayne Harley
anon, Are you paying attention to your brothers in FLA/NEW ENGLAND/ KCMO/ST.LOUIS/CALI/UPSTATE/ALABAMA. DIDN'T THINK SO, YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT UNDER YOUR OWN DFEET !
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iamlistman@yahoo.com
In reply to this post by anon
 You seem to want to control a local, why?


              BECAUSE YOU DON'T !
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