William Lebo: You know, Peter Thomassen in his letter in the New York City Carpenter magazine said that we should hold our Council officers accountable. How? We can't do it. A delegate body is mostly composed of members who work for the District Council. They are officers of locals.
They get paid by the District Council.
You want to fix this? Make it so that the delegate body cannot be paid from the District Council, that they cannot hold positions as Council employees.
Make, (Draper interrupts)
THE CHAIRMAN: So you're suggesting that a member, because he is a paid official of the Union, can't run for office?
THE WITNESS: Can't run for delegate, yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: I mean, I don't even understand the logic of --
THE WITNESS: The logic of that is our EST hires and fires. And as throughout your Union, our EST hires and fires the employees of the District Council and the Regional Council and so forth.
THE CHAIRMAN: Let's take it one step back. Who elects delegates for the Regional Council?
THE WITNESS: Who elected? The membership.
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, the membership elects them -- wait a minute. Wait a minute. Every member that is otherwise eligible under the Constitution can run for any office as delegate, right?
THE WITNESS: Right.
THE CHAIRMAN: So you have a membership meeting, a special call meeting, every member is notified, they are going to have election of delegates. So a business agent runs, the president of the Local runs as a delegate, and what you're sitting here telling me today is that you want to disenfranchise them and the members from voting for them for delegate to represent them at the District Council. This does not make any sense.
THE WITNESS: Absolutely, it makes a lot of sense because --
THE CHAIRMAN: That it's your opinion
THE WITNESS: It absolutely is my opinion, Brother. The EST can hire or fire and can control their votes. That is a problem. You want accountability? Remove that. I -- that will give you otherwise, you've got nonsense. You're just stonewalled. We've been around. All right?