Anon this is a small lesson for you I made it simple so you understand

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Anon this is a small lesson for you I made it simple so you understand

Wayne Harley
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Re: Anon this is a small lesson for you I made it simple so you understand

anon
Ok, I watched the you tube clip  on labor unions.
Where was the lesson for me supposed to be?
I think you should try watching it again.
The workers in this clip form a LABOR UNION, not a happy meeting place where you can pay your dues local.
They joined together to show a unified front to employers to demand better working conditions.
Your local is not a labor union.
Where are you getting this notion that there is some benefit to be had from your local?
If there is one, and you believe so strongly in it, why can you not say what it is?
I am not using trickery, or twisting facts, I am asking you to give me one example of what your local does which makes it of value.
If there are no benefits  to  belonging to your local, why are you so hell bent on paying dues to it? If there are benefits, why can no one say what they are?
Clearly if your local was a labor union there would be benefits, you would be discussing with members the various terms of contracts, the advantages and disadvantages of different organizing techniques, where it might be advantageous to offer concessions or where the union should hold firm.
What was discussed at your last local meeting? Tightening your belt? what charities the local would be donating to? The costs of maintaining the office to collect dues? Was your input required on anything related to employer/employee conditions?
Try watching your you tube clip again and see what the workers did to improve their lot.
At least back then they did not have to fight their union and their employers.
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Re: Anon this is a small lesson for you I made it simple so you understand

Wayne Harley
anon,  Your last sentance is the smartest thing you have said. "At least back then they did not have to fight their union and their employers". We are the Union not the EST, the Council, or Doug McCarron. (We are the Rank and File. )I have already explained to you the importance of a local so go back and read. Then lets all work together to put the decisive power back in the hands of the Rank and File.
 

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“Life is a tale told by an idiot -- full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

anon
I did post a lengthy reply to point out that you have shown nothing, then I realized that it boiled down to the fact that  you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about and have no idea of what it is you actually want. Basically you have no clue.
What does it say for those who would follow you when you have no idea of where you are trying to get to. More fodder for the UBC.
The question this raises for me is, if I were to put the power of this union in the members hands, how many idiots like you are there?
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conflicting messages

anon
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Wayne Harley
 What can a local do anymore?
Not very much according to Douglas MacCartney from union carpenters for democracy.
The first hurdle apparently is the sheer volume of new legislation which would be required to bring back locals as a viable institution.
 Rather than looking at what has been lost, he suggests that it might be better to try and hold on to what has been left.
 The first problem that Douglas sees is that the locals are powerless and so  “To secure  voice, you have to have some form of organization within your Regional Council,”.
 So the first step would be to start your own party to run for the delegates positions and you are going to need some really dedicated members for this according to Douglas.
You are also going to want to get some of your party members elected to the E-board so they can form meaningful committees  so that the locals will actually  do something, he doesn’t say what, just something meaningful.
He also concedes that “ Today, we only have one avenue left of expressing any meaningful voice in our conditions of employment, or the internal business of our union and that is our Delegates to the Regional Council. Because of this, it's imperative we be as intelligent as possible about who we elect to these positions.”  
 To give you some idea of what would be involved in bringing the locals back as functioning labor unions, he lists what would be required.
You are going to have to get your council to mail out to members any business it is going to discuss at the delegate meetings to all members at least thirty days in advance of those meetings so that members can discuss it.
Of course the councils have already stated that they will not mail out or hand out any information discussed at delegate meetings after those meetings have taken place,  never mind in advance, so this is going to be a tough hill to climb. It also creates a potentially damaging scenario if sensitive issues such as might come about during contract negotiations must be made public. There are some contracting members, are they to lose their right as a local member?
How about foremen and company men who might leak information to their employers?
 It would seem impossible to restrict employers access to all union business under this system.
Douglas also points out that members are going to have to get the EST’s to give up their golden egg, delegates appointed to council positions.  
It is also going to require that delegate votes be recorded, another obstacle to be overcome as the EST’s are not going to want their pet delegates votes made public. It is hard to see why the delegates themselves would want such a thing as it will only increase scrutiny on them.  
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Re: conflicting messages

iamlistman@yahoo.com
anon points out:
The first problem that Douglas sees is that the locals are powerless.

WHY IS THAT A PROBLEM FOR HIM ITS WHAT HE HAS DESIGNED.

anon:
" To secure  voice, you have to have some form of organization within your Regional Council,”.

WHERE'D THE VERBATIM YOU QUOTE COME FROM, - MCCARONS MOUTH !


anon says:
You are also going to want to get some of your party members elected to the E-board so they can form meaningful committees  so that the locals will actually  do something, he doesn’t say what, just something meaningful.


 THERE CAN BE NO MEANING TO WHAT A DC PAID DELEGATE CAN DO AT A LOCAL. NO MORE PAID REPRS AT THE LOCALS !

anon says:
 So the first step would be to start your own party to run for the delegates positions and you are going to need some really dedicated members for this " according to Douglas."
 according to Douglas

THAT SHOULD SAY ENOUGH, BEING I JUST GOT BACK FROM CHURCH


anon says in further admiration :
 He also concedes that “ Today, we only have one avenue left of expressing any meaningful voice in our conditions of employment, or the internal business of our union and that is our Delegates to the Regional Council. Because of this, it's imperative we be as intelligent as possible about who we elect to these positions.”  


" or the internal business of our union"
" we only have one avenue left "

WHEN ALL IS SAID & DONE IT'LL BE DOUGS BUSINESS OF NOTHING MORE THAN A COUNCIL OPERATED HIRING HALL WITH THESE NEW COMMITTEES.

anon:
To give you some idea of what would be involved in bringing the locals back as functioning labor unions, he lists what would be required.

AGAIN YOUR PANDERING FOR HIM anon !

anon:
Of course the councils have already stated that they will not mail out or hand out any information discussed at delegate meetings after those meetings have taken place,  never mind in advance, so this is going to be a tough hill to climb

AND YOU AGREE WITH HIS MAKING THIS TOUGH FOR US ?????????????????


anon:
It also creates a potentially damaging scenario if sensitive issues such as might come about during contract negotiations must be made public

UNDER MCCARON YOU A MEMBER WILL NOT KNOW, - FORGET ABOUT THE PUBLIC.

anon:
Douglas also points out that members are going to have to get the EST’s to give up their golden egg, delegates appointed to council positions.  
It is also going to require that delegate votes be recorded, another obstacle to be overcome as the EST’s are not going to want their pet delegates votes made public. It is hard to see why the delegates themselves would want such a thing as it will only increase scrutiny on them.  

YOU BLINDLY FOLLOW ALL OF HIS ANTI UNION RHETORIC.
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Re: conflicting messages

anon
"according to Douglas MacCartney from union carpenters for democracy."  you really should read the entire post, otherwise you might find that you are attacking the wrong Douglas.  This Douglas    http://unioncarpentersfordemocracy.webs.com/